One of the blogs I read regularly is “Juanita Jean’s, the World’s Most Dangerous Beauty Salon, Inc.,” where “Juanita” sometimes appears to be an incarnation of the much-missed Molly Ivins.
There’s something about tough Texas women with drawls and rapier wits….
At any rate, Juanita has taken note of the seizure of a national park headquarters building by supporters of Cliven Bundy (you’ll remember Cliven, whose definition of “liberty” included the liberty to graze his cattle on public land without paying for the privilege.) As she quotes from news reports,
Militia members protesting a federal prison sentence for two Oregon ranchers convicted on charges of setting fire to federal land have occupied the headquarters of a national park, the OregonLive reports.
The protesters include Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy’s son, Ammon, and two of his brothers. Also among them is Ryan Payne, who organized snipers to aim weapons at federal officers during the Bundy Ranch standoff last year.
They told OregonLive that they are accompanied by about 150 others and are hunkered down at Malheur National Wildlife Refuge headquarters. The group is described by reporter Les Zaitz as “hard core militia” who adopted the ranchers’ cause as their own.
Her impertinent question/observation?
Now I want you to consider this: Let’s pretend it was Muslims who set federal land a’blaze and that Muslims overtook a federal building. In your wildest dreams imagine Fox News and Ted Cruz having a snarling cat over that.
Actually, it doesn’t take much imagination. As Vox recently headlined its story about the armed takeover, media coverage sure looks different when the demonstrators (terrorists?) are white.
Just one more day in America, where the double standard runs so deep that satire is on its deathbed, and self-awareness is likewise a vanishing commodity…..
I wished the media would stop calling them militia!
I doubt those guys ever served anything but beer to their sons.
They are a disgrace to America.
Popcorn anyone? 😉
Great points AgingLGrl.
Here is a thought: if they believe they have the right to graze their livestock on public lands, then we all should have the right to ‘hunt’ those animals on ‘our’ property.
Correction: I meant to say graze their livestock on public property without paying rent.
Why is there any question as to intervention by federal authorities taking action in this ridiculous – and another embarrassing – situation in the United States? They “attempted” to take action against Bundy on his own land but now allow Bundy & Company to take over federally owned/public land but allow these heavily armed and dangerous fools to run amok. As Juanita notes; if they were Muslims (I am going to add Syrian refugees) the reaction/action would be totally different.
Now I’m not only afraid of my own country; I am disgusted and embarrassed by another Three Stooges/Keystone Kops situation going on.
This 78 year old, deaf, disabled, white woman living on barely above poverty level income is forced by the City of Indianapolis to maintain half of an entire vacant lot property next door or be fined heavily. It is a City right-of-way that was left vacant in mid-1950’s “in case the city decided to continue Irwin Avenue from East 21st Street south to 19th Street”. This information came from the Warren Township Assessor’s Office. The residents on 20th Street have taken ownership (or just “occupied) the property and fenced it off as their own. The neighbor on the west side and I have the right to request the City of Indianapolis turn ownership of “our half” of the property which will raise property taxes. We opted to just continue paying for the mowing but must clean up trash and debris on the huge lot. This is a local government enforced action on residents to maintain city property…rather a reverse situation from the past Bundy fiasco and the current Oregon/Bundy “militia takeover”.
Juanita; can you help me?
Apparently, the key point of the definition of “terrorist” is whether or not one is white.
AgingLGrl, Nancy, Theresa; we “girls” are on a roll today. This must be a “guy thing” and they are taking their time, mulling it over as to how best word their thoughts on this issue. Or are they embarrassed that a group of knuckle-dragging, Duck Dynasty, armed-to-the-teeth, white males are again beating their chests and showing their prowess, reportedly using children as shields, against legally armed federal agents?
We all remember Waco, Ruby Ridge, bombing of the Murrah Building in Oklahoma City and other events of this nature which ended badly before 9/11 and outsiders were the culprits. Had the band of Bundy desperadoes (in both Bundy situations) not had access to military level weapons, most of these events would have been prevented. Of course Timothy McVey did use fertilizer to bomb the Murrah Building but that was more than throwing cow patties and horse apples at a government installation. When will true Americans take back control of our country? Will we? Can we? Why haven’t we taken control before now?
The NRA has realized for decades that arming an army is way more lucrative than arming hunters so they created the “Rambo” brand. We are now reaping what they sowed and paying the bill for it.
“Make more money regardless of the cost to others” in action.
You have to wonder if our subsidies to the arms industry don’t rival those to the fossil fuel industry in terms of paying for the consequences of their profits.
Our policy has always been not to negotiate with terrorists. It’s time to tell the Oregon Mafia that they have an upcoming appointment with a drone and a Hellfire missile if they don’t clear out.
More insight into the Oregon Mafia.
http://usuncut.com/news/5-things-you-need-to-know-about-the-oregon-militia-takeover/
It’s a combination of KKK thinking and armed insurrection that we have coddled too long in the hope that the most racist and heavily civilian armed country the world has ever known, built that way because it’s so profitable, would evolve peacefully.
When the ignorant take charge we should not expect wise solutions.
JoAnn,
“Aging Girl, Nancy, Theresa; we “girls” are on a roll today.”
I feel like I’m being pushed out. Do I need to undergo a sex change? I’m serious. I’m willing to change if need be.
What? Marv isn’t short for Marvella?
How should these white men, believers in their fabrication of the American social/political compact, be dealt with? So far in Oregon they have harmed no one. Are people inclined to visit the wildlife refuge at risk of their lives? Will the armed men cause damage to the national park? At what cost can they be removed? Whose life is worth an armed conflict? Someone will die.
These are school-yard bullies. I dealt with one – a punch in the mouth ended his demand I give him my breakfast.
Drones and missiles? No. No more publicity. Cut off access till they run out of food and water. That’s the prescribed ‘punch in the mouth’.
Thank You Pete.
Bring on the Hell Fire Missile
If the KKK Wants a fight, give them one
Theresa,
“What? Marv isn’t short for Marvella?
Maybe so. It’s my politics. I’m a feminist. My long time companion, Barbara, converted me.
I have to admit I’m an excellent survivor. I’m only protecting my “ass” from the actions of the “nutty white males ” running our country into the ground.
Marv; please…never change. But do wade in on this issue; we need your legal expertise to know what to ask/demand our elected officials to do.
Wayne; are you ready to head to Oregon to visit that particular public site? Your rights are being denied by these “school yard bullies” as you demoted these heavily armed thugs to, who from out of state to stir up more s*#t because they succeeded in holding off the federal government before. It worked before and, so far, is working again in their favor.
Great comeback, Marv. This is why you are my hero.
The double standard is real, and these people are both unhinged and dangerous, but the whole thing is so crazy that it is hard to take seriously. (The posts reflect that.)
JoAnn,
“…..we need your legal expertise to know what to ask/demand our elected officials to do.”
I wish it wasn’t so, but I don’t believe our elected officials can do anything. The DNA of our socio/poliltical culture has been altered in such a way that “normal” corrective measures to our political system are to no avail.
Our only chance is to re-alter the DNA, if it’s still possible. Unfortunately, It might be too late. That was the case for Germany in 1933. The “Third Force” was unstoppable.
The federal agents are trained to resolve without escalating. I’d assume that’s what is going on
Huff Post reports withering fire from social media, with Twitter tags YallQaeda, VanillaISIS, YokelHaram, al-Shabubba, and waging YeeHawd. One commenter said that every successful revolution starts with the takeover of a closed visitor center with a gift shop in a bird sanctuary.
I checked the Google Map on this location. Given the remoteness of this location, it would seem rather easy to block the roads. No traffic should be allowed into the Park. Let these fellows go for a few days without food or water. Their employers may not like the fact, they are no shows for work either.
The Media bestows the name “militia” on them as if they are some legally sanctioned arm of the State or Federal Government. I suspect once the Republicon Candidates for President can develop a story line they will offer their support to this rabble. I am sure FOX News will through some tortured logic equate this rabble to the Minute Men in the Revolutionary War. Like others I wonder how different the reaction would be if 100 or so armed African-Americans took over a City Park??
On the bright side, I still believe in Santa Claus, that being SANTA CLAUS TRUMP. He’s forced the issue for the Republicans much earlier than they would have ever expected.
For the Republican and their mega wealthy “John Bircher core” led by the KOCH BROTHERS, it was to have been a SLOW COUP with Jeb Bush being elected President this year. Now what: They’re left with either Trump or Cruz. Either one could win. Cruz the most dangerous. But then, what?
The KOCH BROTHERS, I’m sure, if they’re smart enough, must remember the point in time when German “big business” lost control of Adolph Hitler. No doubt, both Trump and Cruz are uncontrollable. Hopefully, some of the Koch Brothers “best friends” will be knocking on their door to remind them of German history.
It might well go like so much of this nonsense: Fox and their ilk pick up on half the story, makes a big noise until the rest of the story comes out. Then everyone quietly slinks away. I like the direction of the social media: ridicule. Takes away the bravado and heroics.
There’s nothing new under the sun when considering the behaviors of humankind, and we need only go back 50 years to an earlier iteration of those who believe they hold the solution for all manner of grievances against our government.
Uncivil rebellions do get attention for nothing more than their penchant in employing firearms, dangerous explosive devices, and threats. Despite their obvious surface differences, there’s an underlying similarity of fanatical mindsets when considering the leadership commonalities of both the Weather Underground of the late 1960’s / early 1970’s and the Bundy Self-styled Militia.
Going to war with the United States Government didn’t work out for Bernardine Dohrn and Bill Ayers in their Weather Underground leadership nor will it work for Cliven Bundy and his Militia leadership role.
Every day policemen somewhere here have to decide that a particular countryman needs to pay the ultimate price in order to protect the public from his/her crimes. The vast majority of the time it’s a wise decision but sometimes it turns out to have been premature. It’s apparently an easier decision if the criminal is a “them”.
The military is trained and equipped to deal with threats from outside, to our country, lethally if necessary.
We have always looked upon these necessities as both the end of one criminal enterprise and the prevention of others as potential perps consider the ramifications.
As I said before our policy is not to negotiate with terrorists otherwise that game would never be over.
What are we to do with yahoos in Oregon stealing our country in more ways than one?
There is really no reason to negotiate. We can’t and shouldn’t concede a thing to them. They are criminally wrong pure and simple.
Death seems like a steep sentence but they are prepared to deal it and therefore so must we be. They chose that option.
To me they must be given the option to surrender individually to police to be tried for something like breaking and entering. We should help them make that decision by depriving them of food, water, heat and even beer.
But at some point those that choose not to, have to be evicted from the premises and arrested and tried for appropriate more serious crimes.
I wouldn’t risk a single other life in that process. Ample warnings, draw a line in the sand, then end it using the most appropriate military technology.
Pete, your comments about depriving them of “even beer” is right on. Actually, that should be the first thing of which they should be deprived. When the water and electricity are shut off, that will help sober up their self-righteous bravado. And it’s starting to get cold.
If I did something like that, I’d probably dead already… What they are doing is wrong. If there’s a beef take it to court, you know? Like a civilized person or group would (and I would hope and expect them to lose). Juanita asked a great question! Tamir Rice lasted 2 seconds with a toy gun… These yahoos should already have been taken into custody by any means necessary. If nothing is done soon, this will just encourage more of the same…
This shows why background checks are necessary in my opinion.
#iwasamarksmanintheUSAF
#idontownagunbecauseiamafraidofwhatiwoulddowithit
#dontneedunnecessaryaggrevationinmylife
#ilovethepeaceihave
@Pete, I agree with your statement, “To me they must be given the option to surrender individually to police to be tried for something like breaking and entering.” Looking at history, we usually can find methods of successful resolution.
This solution was used successfully with disbanding the Weather Underground. Members were requested to turn themselves in with the understanding that many of the charges would be dropped. Fines and probation were the usual charges.
Maybe the far right can find a way to blame this on our President.
Theresa, Marv and Stuart – thanks for the laughs!
Everybody’s comments are great today! 2016 is going to be a fun year, I can just tell.
Happy New Year!
BSH,
“This solution (Pete’s) was used successfully with disbanding the Weather Underground.”
You’re talking about activities that occurred almost 50 years ago. That’s not the state of the Union at this time. Try reality. A few months ago, one of our local TV stations conducted a poll of its audience. The question as I remember was: Are you in favor of dissolving the Union? Over 60% were in favor of dissolving the Republic [ which it stands]. I KNOW THE SAMPLE WAS NOT VALID.
But don’t tell me that those taking over the National Park Headquarters do not have millions of Americans rooting for them. That’s why our Government is in a Catch 22. It will lose either way, at least in the short run.
Our socio/political DNA has been Nazified since 1980. Like any medical defect, the symptoms have finally come to the surface after 35 years of looking the other way. The honeymoon is over. Trump and the National Park Headquarters are just the beginning.
Ranchers and farmers have a different view of land and life than us city slickers do. They view both as slave owners viewed their chattel, means to make a living. Of course they were obsoleted long ago by technology, population, and the realization that their thinking was doomed to make our only home uninhabitable.
Like is always true it is painful but necessary to deal with obsolescence. It’s unaffordable. It’s like a rotten apple in a barrel. It drags everyone down.
The obsolete farmers and ranchers in Oregon need to be removed from the barrel.
Pete – Now you ticked me off! You should not make a blanket statement about ranchers and farmers.
As a farmer for almost 50 years I can assure you that not everyone has the mindset that you referred to.
Pete,
Why don’t you read again what you just said. Do you really mean it?
The first two sentences of Pete’s 1:37 post are extremely rude and display his blatant ignorance.
The Hammonds have to go to prison, a place no Oregon local person in power wanted to send them, and they have to put up with Cliven Bundy and his ilk championing their cause, a group they want nothing to do with. My response has is not to the silly double standard that we have for our home grown white terrorists. I am all for the controlled burns that put these two in prison. I lie awake wondering if I could get away with a sneaky burn on my beloved urban locked mountain and if caught, how I would do as a 67 year old woman in federal prison. As an introvert, probably not well.
Any statement made about a group to me has to imply the mean or average not every individual in the entire group.
Being from the east I have more experience with farmers than ranchers but I assume the same mindset applies. Land and farm animal products are means to the end of making a living.
I was listening to an interview of one of the Oregon yahoos and his point, very reasonably made BTW, was that the bird sanctuary was unproductive land. That’s the way he saw what I would probably have described as a very productive eathly resource and life refuge protected from the spoiling of mankind.
I guess that I don’t see any reason to apologize for or restate those sentiments. I think that they may well clarify to some how the three blind men conceive of an elephant as being like a snake, a tree trunk and a wall.
I believe that fundamental to the differences between liberals and conservatives is the definition of what “productive” means.
Mary Beth, as I understand it the conviction was for burns that were out of control and we’re done for the purpose of concealing poaching.
BTW I also believe that slave owners did view their human property as a cattle rancher views his herd. As a marketable asset means of production.
Pete – as I stated before you were very rude and showed your ignorance. In your following post you stated that you have experience with farmers and assume the same mindset applies. Another ignorant statement! Many farmers are very well educated, including myself (economics and finance).
You DID make a blanket statement and since you don’t have the decency to recognize it and apologize, then I am now going to point out your very poor grammer and spelling and your posts that ramble on and on to the point of making no sense at all. On several occasions in this blog you have made statements that imply you are more intelligent than others that post here. To the contrary, you have proven this to be incorrect many times.
If there is anything in my post that could be clearer I would choose “Of course they were obsoleted long ago by technology, population, and the realization that their thinking was doomed to make our only home uninhabitable.”
I mean that as merely a statement of fact about the replacement of farmers and ranchers with agribusiness – and the eventual necessary replacement of meat with plant food that will be required by our big population versus insufficient water, fertilizer and land resources.
Nancy, if I were you I wouldn’t read any more of my posts.
And I’d have to also say that you are way in the lead for rudeness.
Also for everyone I appreciate any language improvement suggestions in any of my posts. Anytime from anyone. It’s not my strong point and so would like to be better at it.
Lastly Nancy I sincerely doubt that I’ve made any statement implying greater intelligence as I know that I’m pretty average in that department. The one thing that I got extra from my parents is curiosity.
Pete,
“….us city slickers.”
“They view both as slave owners viewed their chattel.”
I don’t believe your response to Nancy is adequate. Seriously, why are you more important than the farmers and ranchers? What are you doing that’s improving our lot more than the ranchers and farmers?
Especially, since you categorize you present situation as a “city slicker.”
What would you say if I said: “The obsolete city slickers need to be removed from the barrel? Excuse me, I mean from the troth?”
@Pete, we are all ignorant about some things. Stop digging yourself into a hole. And, yes, like Nancy, I am the owner of a corn, soybean, and Angus cattle farm. By the way, “production” and stewardship of the land are the keywords in farming
I promise not to make blanket statements about engineers, lump them all into one category as being nerds who consider a pocket protector to be a fashion accessory.
Drop a bomb on them its the American Way!
My history lesson for today:
Kodak’s Nazi Connections
New information recently uncovered at the National Archives reveals that subsidiaries of the Eastman Kodak company traded with Nazi Germany long after America had entered the war. A number of US firms have been identified previously as having been involved with the Nazi regime; most recently IBM was cited in a lawsuit filed in early February. The archive documents also provide a glimpse of the attitudes of some US and British government officials during that period who were unwilling to impose any sanctions against the firm, recommending instead that Kodak continue trading to preserve its market position. Though there is no current evidence that Kodak headquarters in Rochester, New York, exercised direct control over its operations in Germany during the war, it did control branches in neutral Switzerland, Spain and Portugal–all of which did business with the Nazis, providing markets and foreign currency.
Kodak’s Swiss branch bought photographic supplies from Germany in 1942 and 1943 for 72,000 wartime Swiss francs, from occupied France for more than 24,000 Swiss francs and from Hungary (a German ally) for 272,000 Swiss francs. For 1943 alone, these transactions were described by the American Embassy in London as “fairly substantial purchases from enemy territory.” “The idea that he has been helping the enemy seems never to have occurred” to Kodak’s Swiss manager, noted Howard Elting Jr., a US vice consul in Switzerland, in November 1943. “I pointed out to him that our sole interest is to shut off every possible source of benefit to our enemies, regardless of what American commercial interests might suffer.”
But other officials disagreed. In early 1942 Kodak’s branch in Spain imported items from Germany worth at least 17,000 Reichsmarks. In March 1942, more than three months after America had declared war on Germany, Willard Beaulac, chargé d’affaires at the American Embassy in Madrid, recommended to the Secretary of State that Kodak headquarters be given “an appropriate license” for its Madrid subsidiary to import “films, chemicals, spools, and other supplies from Germany.” He reasoned, “Shutting off of German sources of supply would seriously embarrass the company without serving any useful purpose since the demand for services in the Spanish market which could not be met by Kodak would simply be taken over by its German and Italian competitors. The position of these competitors in this market would thereby be considerably strengthened and the recapture of the business by Kodak after the war greatly handicapped.” An official at Britain’s Trading With the Enemy Department in 1943 agreed that Kodak should “continue to get supplies from Germany so that the market may not be lost to German competition.” (But licenses were not granted. Kodak executives had known that licenses were required. Their branch in Turkey had been given a British license in 1940 to import from Hungary. It was revoked in February 1942.)
A.D. Page, legal adviser to Kodak in London, told the British government in 1943 that Kodak branches “have been able to obtain some goods from Kodak factories in Germany, France and Hungary,” which he said “resulted in their being able to maintain the Kodak name alive in their territories and to supply their customers with more goods than they would have been able to do had they been limited to purchasing from England and America only.”
Kodak’s Portuguese subsidiary helped the enemy in still another way: It sent its profits to the company’s branch in the Nazi-occupied Hague in mid-1942, a dispatch from Kodak Lisbon to the general comptroller in Rochester revealed. No penalties for Kodak’s trade with the enemy were ever imposed by the United States or Great Britain, according to available records.
German historian Karola Fings discovered that in 1941 Kodak had transferred its German operations to two Kodak trustees and an attorney to represent Kodak’s interests in case of war with America: Carl Thalmann, supervisory board chairman of Kodak’s German operations; Hans Wiegner, a board member; and Gerhard A. Westrick, a German attorney who acted as an intermediary between US corporations and the Third Reich. (Wilhelm Keppler, Hitler’s personal economic adviser, was dubbed “a Kodak Man” by US military intelligence for his close business and personal connections to the firm, Edwin Black writes in IBM and the Holocaust. Once Hitler had come to power, Keppler advised a number of US firms on letting their Jewish employees go.)
Kodak’s revenues and employees in Germany increased during the early years of the war as the company expanded to manufacture triggers, detonators and other military hardware. “Business doing well,” Thalmann cabled Rochester at the end of 1942. The branch in occupied France also thrived. In May 1943, C. de Julian, a former staff member of Kodak in Italy and son of the Kodak manager in Madrid, wrote to Kodak executives: “Anticipating that the Management would surely be interested to know the state of affairs of the French Kodak Company, I succeeded in getting a permit to stop in Paris.” He reported that the branch had made so much money during the war that it had purchased real estate, a coal mine and a rest house for the staff.
In Germany Kodak used slave laborers, according to Fings and Roland Wig of the Milberg Weiss law firm, which has been active in Holocaust-related lawsuits. At Kodak’s Stuttgart plant, there were at least eighty slave laborers, and at the Berlin-Kopenick factory there were more than 250 slave laborers. Asked to comment, a Kodak spokesman said that in recognition of its use of slave labor, Kodak had contributed $500,000 to the German fund for the victims of forced labor, adding: “I have every confidence that Kodak did not do business with any enemy country during the war and that it cooperated fully with US government regulations and sanctions. At no time was Kodak in violation of any proscriptions from the US or UK war offices. The Swiss subsidiary was never notified to stop trading. Once it received notification it stopped.”
The US State Department declined to comment. A spokesman for the British Embassy in Washington said he was unable to respond without a search of the documents.
Kodak was not the only US firm that maintained relations with the enemy; others involved included Standard Oil, ITT and Ford [see Ken Silverstein, “Ford and the Führer,” January 24, 2000]. To set the historical record straight, Kodak and the others should divulge the full extent of their wartime transactions with Germany and the Axis nations. And the US government should release all files that pertain to any trade with the enemy by American companies.
On a related subject, Professor Saul Friedlander, the historian who chairs the commission investigating Bertelsmann’s Nazi past, said that a final report, which could be as long as 500 pages, is expected to be released by the end of the year.
By John S. Friedman
March 8, 2001
Marv. Re: Kodak. Really?
How come nobody has anything to say about the veracity of what I wrote?
Marv, if you are going to quote me quote the context too.
“Ranchers and farmers have a different view of land and life than us city slickers do. They view both as slave owners viewed their chattel, means to make a living.”
Who believes that slave owners, farmers and ranchers didn’t or don’t regard their assets as means of production?
@Pete
“How come nobody has anything to say about the veracity of what I wrote?”
Which post?
Pete,
“How come nobody has anything to say about the veracity of what I wrote?”
“Marv, RE: Kodak. Really?
Because that’s not the issue. You generalized. You said nothing to exclude Nancy. It’s not about veracity it’s about your ethics.
Yes. Really.
Haven’t you often praised your mentor and his ethics at Eastman Kodak. Am I not correct? Or did I hear you wrong?