Permit me a Sunday Sermon.
If you want to understand the recent rise of the “nones”–people, especially young people, who do not affiliate with any organized religion, and who explicitly reject the “Christianity” that dominates headlines– you need only read about the prayer recently given by Senator David Perdue, Republican of Georgia, at a Faith and Freedom Rally.
Numerous media outlets have reported that Perdue told his audience to “pray like Psalm 109:8 for Obama.” And what does Psalm 109:8 say?
Let his days be few; and let another take his office.
Let his children be fatherless, and his wife a widow.
Let his children be continually vagabonds, and beg: let them seek their bread also out of their desolate places.
Let the extortioner catch all that he hath; and let the strangers spoil his labour.
Let there be none to extend mercy unto him: neither let there be any to favour his fatherless children.
Let his posterity be cut off; and in the generation following let their name be blotted out.
Let the iniquity of his fathers be remembered with the Lord; and let not the sin of his mother be blotted out.
Evidently, suggesting Psalm 109:8 as an appropriate prayer for Obama has become a right-wing meme; the biblically knowledgable “pious” folks even buy bumper stickers and shirts that carry the reference.
My Facebook feed was filled with reports about–and reactions to–the Senator’s “prayer” yesterday, right before Indianapolis’ annual Pride celebration. The contrast between those who– like Perdue– use religion in the service of hate and the churches and religious organizations promoting love and inclusion in the Pride parade was striking.
I’ve attended most of Indianapolis’ Pride celebrations since 1992. My husband and I still remember the very first year there was a parade; as I recall, it had all of eight participants. Yesterday’s parade lasted more than two hours, and had well over 100. (In the hot sun, it seemed like 1000…)
In addition to the businesses, the banks, the universities, the LGBT and civil rights organizations, a significant number of participants were churches: Quaker, Presbyterian, Episcopalian, Baptist, United Methodist, Unitarian, Christian, UCC and others. The Jewish Community Relations Council represented the Jewish community.[Update: There were actually twelve Jewish organizations participating; the JCRC was one of the twelve. H/T to Paula Winnig for the correction.]
Several denominations had more than one church participating (the Episcopalians had 4!). The messages on their banners were the absolute antithesis of the mean-spirited and hypocritical prayers of the so-called “Christians” who dominate the Republican party. (The most recent evidence of that domination? Indiana’s GOP platform committee just declined to allow convention delegates to even consider a proposal to bring that document into conformity with the law of the land by eliminating language insisting that marriage should only be between a man and a woman.)
When the image of religiosity is the image conveyed by theocrats and fundamentalists who insist that their highly selective reading of their bibles should supersede the U.S. Constitution and the rule of law, it shouldn’t surprise anyone that decent and loving human beings reject that narrow and self-serving “Godliness.”
When “Christian” folks pray publicly for the death of our President, when Indiana’s Governor defines “religious liberty” as the right of his kind of Christian to discriminate against LGBT Hoosiers (but not the right of women to follow the dictates of their own religions or consciences with respect to reproduction), it’s no wonder good people prefer to define themselves as “nones.”
I don’t get it. President Obama will be leaving office on Jan 20th, 2017 and yet they can’t wait that long? Come on, they’ve been waiting for Jesus to return for 2000 yrs…
And these are professed “Christians”; many of whom believe all Muslims are terrorists and extremists. Many “Christians” also believe Jews are Jesus killers. For centuries they have gone into third world countries, tribes in the innermost regions of Africa and shoved “Christianity” down the throats of people using fear tactics…the same fear tactics of “hell fire and damnation” for all who go against THEIR beliefs, including their own Christian congregants.
To pray for the death of President Obama so openly is racism and hatred; nothing more and nothing else. AgingLGrl; I’m surprised at your comments, Perdue told his followers to pray for the DEATH of President Obama, NOT to remove him from office. Freedom of speech has become a dangerous weapon in this country; as dangerous as the misunderstanding of the 2nd Amendment and the “right to bear arms”. Donald Trump’s most dangerous weapon is his mouth and he uses it with deadly aim.
I left organized religion decades ago; my last encounter was with a racist Baptist church who had lured me in with false friendships till I realized their preaching and beliefs had me living in fear of making simple daily decisions to care for my family. They dunned my for my required 10% tithe which I gave from my babysitting and sewing money – they included my husband’s salary when he had never entered their door. Fear and money have become the basis of Christianity; young people recognize this early on, we of the older generations take a little longer to realize the enslavement to the Holy Bible and the translation to fit our daily lives by a chosen few who lead the Christian church – and the GOP.
We don’t seem to see, hear or read these orders, instructions and damnations regarding other religions which drives their people away – other than the current blatant hatred of Muslims and the Islamic religion by hopeful political leaders today by instilling fear of openly living their beliefs.
Just a funny little thing from me: my academic work as a graduate student was in the Middle Ages, so whenever I see “nones,” I see the monastic office of prayer that took place in the late morning.
Oh Sky Cake, why are you so delicious?
The people that listen to preachers talk about hell and damnation have fallen prey to those preachers and seem to be fearful of going against their rules. However, many of the men in those churches commit adultery, incest, and child abuse. Those men (and their wives) work hard to keep their sins secret from other congregants. What a terrible way to live.
In my opinion, Franklin Graham is one of the worst people on earth. He preaches hatred and damnation. I wouldn’t listen to him if my life depended on it, but I have occasionally read parts of what he preaches and it sickens me.
I grew up in the Methodist denomination. Every Sunday was a sermon about giving more money to the church. Forty some years ago people were leaving that church to seek out other denominations. They didn’t return. I finally got fed up and left. I attended a Quaker church for thirteen years where the sermons were about love. When that denomination decided not to accept homosexuality I decided that I had enough of organized religion and never went back.
I am thankful that I never attended a church that preached hellfire and damnation. I can’t even imagine listening to that every Sunday. What a complete waste of time. Those people live their lives judging others while they themselves are some of the worst sinners there are.
This is a great argument for voting out all of the Republicans. All of them.
Gandhi: I like your Christ. I don’t much care for your Christians.
Twain: There was only one Christian and they crucified him early.
Me: There are those who pray, and those who prey. Don’t be confused.
JoAnn, I think it’s awful that they ‘pray’ for the President’s death. Sorry if my words didn’t express that.
I was raised a Catholic, but stopped attending church during college. Many years later, I began searching for a church and found All Saints at 16th and Central, where I became an Episcopalian. I found a church where it was okay to have doubts, okay to think of the Bible as allegory rather than fact, okay to believe in science. I no longer live in Indy, but have found a similar Episcopal church here. The right winged theocrats of the Republican party do not speak for all of Christianity.
Read Numbers 31 to better understand why the Psalmist wrote those words. Read “Mornings in Jenin” to understand treatment of Palestinians today. A vengeful god is a terrible task master. An inerrant scripture leads blind followers to horrible acts. Reason has no correcting effect.
We will never know the full extent of challenge, frustration, and hate that Presidet Obama has endured at the hands of a political party whose sole purpose was to cause him (and, by extension, the country) to fail.
“You can safely assume you’ve created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.” ― Anne Lamott
Christianity flavored in GOP juices still drives Indiana politics. It has created division, hardship, and discrimination to all manner of citizens, even children. The rhetoric of self-proclaimed Christians spewing hatred fuels more hatred. Even I am wary when someone just defines himself/herself Christian, and I am left to figure out if this is a person that mends clothes for the homeless (a person I admire and support their values) or one that prays for the death of our dear President. This is definitely “something” but does not smack of any of the world’s living religions and is no better than the hijacking of the Muslim faith by ISIS — all that is left is this kind of verbal hatred being acted upon by someone seeking attention and is not mentally stable. The speaker and actors of hatred are very, very dangerous among us and both should be held accountable.
I don’t care if they pray for Obama’s destruction and neither should you. People are allowed to hate who they want. Only when they cross into actual acting on that hate do they cross a line.
I do agree that this drives many away from religion, but who cares? If they ostracize themselves with their words, let them! The world would be better for it.
Frankly Obama is scum and a liar and I can’t wait for him to leave office. He’s a liar, a warmonger, an elitist, and a fascist corporate hack (and I was stupid and voted for him twice: once because I bought his lies, the second because I chose the lesser of two evils).
His presidency has been no different than Bush Jr’s in any meaningful way and the only progress we made under him were politically superfluous (though still good). Great, he spoke out for gay marriage and gave a few token nods to economic inequality – who cares? The balance of power, threat of terrorism, and rights of citizens vs corporations hasn’t improved. He’s still conducting the same power stealing others before him started.
Obama is a disgusting president.
And why do you care that people are praying this? What business is it of yours?
Frankly this “sermon” as you call it is made from the same empty rhetoric that’s driving people away from churches.
Now 20 dead in an LGBT club in Orlando, Florida; “Christians”, no doubt…of the GOP variety. All 50 states should have Hate Crime laws for such situations; this is not new, just a higher count than usual. Another shameful gun event in the United States and the news will go around the world to further soil the reputation and destroy the trust we once enjoyed as our right.
“Me: There are those who pray, and those who prey. Don’t be confused.”
Thank you, Wray McCallister. The NRA continues to prEy on this county and will until they are removed from financial control of our law makers.
Disappointed Joe MUST be Gopper using an alias to slip his hatred and racist views on this blog.
Poor Disappointed Joe probably gets paid a nickle a line to pen such hate and nonsense.
“Faith” is a set of assumptions about what cannot be known. We all have it, we all live our Faith or faith.
There are pious Believers, extremists, and there are the still curious trying on various assumptions in search of what fits best.
The facts of President Obama’s terms eliminate any need for faith but those who choose to remain ignorant of them have their assumptions to fall back on.
Faith or faith can be a blessing creating comfort and strength and peace but ignorance is always a curse and a return to those days that human progress left behind long ago.
Our problem is that the English language specifies the category “Christian” as associated with the church of Christ. That in itself is meaningless as a token of humanity. All kinds of people can claim that some of whom are so ignorant as to be a danger to society.
If someone claims to be Christian little information is conveyed. Our reaction should be “so what” just like our reaction should be to so many other adjectives. Tell me who you are. Tell me what you know of what mankind knows and what you assume otherwise.
“Obama is a disgusting president.”
He is more studied and calmer than I will ever be.
He is steady and reflective more than I will ever be.
He admits mistakes genuinely.
He encourages the American people to pull together as a community.
He remains calm in the face of biased criticism.
I hope that I can become more disgusting.
I’m going to offer a bit of a defense of Disappointed Joe: it’s good to hear and consider what he thinks about things, and why, because a great many of our fellow citizens have similar views, and they’re entitled to respect. His “disappointment” reflects that of many on both left and right.
And Joe does not indulge in the hatefulness and ad hominem attacks that had characterized Gopper’s comments for some time. He just disagrees, as people of good will often do.
Actions start with thoughts. Hating calls for looking in the mirror and making deliberate efforts to change one’s thoughts. It’s my business because our thoughts can build or destroy our lives and those around us.
Nope, 50 dead in Orlando at the hands of a someone who appears to be a Muslim.
Sky Pie maybe?
I enjoy your writings, but this one troubles me. Senator Perdue quoted Psalm Chapter 109 Verse 8, not the whole chapter. You included the complete chapter in your writing and not just verse 8. No, I am not a fan of Senator Perdue, but this is an important clarification. Thank you
Ginny F. Your post is very thoughtful and that’s to be commended. It’s the best we can do.
“He just disagrees, as people of good will often do.”
The question to me to be asked is, does he have facts to be shared to support what he believes or is it merely faith based?
When facts aren’t presented I assume that it’s faith based which is all that have in some cases but not where the results of Obama’s Presidency are concerned.
Faith is necessary in life but reducing ignorance is a never ending responsibility in a Democracy.
I don’t care if you don’t like the President. He’s the Commander in Chief so that’s the respect he deserves. If this Joe guy hates Obama so much, why come stir up trouble on a liberal blog? What is your business here? To get some laughs at our responses? You’re kinda sick Joe. Maybe instead of reading a liberal educator’s blog, why not visit a doctor for all that hatred you spew?
Sorry but I just witnessed a news conference that shook me to my core and I’m so upset about 103 people getting shot up by another hater in this world. When is that HATRED going to end?
Ginny F, Joe’s first two sentences are acceptable. However from that point on he has reduced himself to his usual hate filled statements.
“People are allowed to hate who they want. ”
Jesus would be so proud.
Pete, “faith is necessary” How So? Of course that depends on one’s definition of faith. I only think of “faith” as religious in meaning
Disappointed Joe
Thanks for your views about President Obama.
If you have any about George W. Bush I’d like to read them. Please copy and paste them to your next post on this site. Thank you.
My grandfather was a UCC minister which has always been a progressive denomination. Living in Terre Haute my mom got mad at the local UCC minister and so we started to attend the Methodist Church. My father was raised Catholic and he actually still practices and goes to church….we tease that the typical Catholic is the non-practicing Catholic. My grandfather told my mom that he didn’t care who she married but he did not want her to marry a Southern Baptist and some of the other Evangelical type religions. He always thought there was something wrong with them.
I stopped going to church over LGBT. I am a faithful person and I believe in God. I believe he created the homosexual just like he created me as a heterosexual. It never made any sense to me that he would create a baby with a sin so great that that baby is condemned to hell at birth but I never attended a Hell and fire, damnation church. My dearest friend was Gay, my first and second boyfriends were gay….my dearest friend finally came out when he turned 42. He was raised Southern Baptist and then attended several non-denomination churches…some of his stories of what went on were alarming to me.
There was an attempt to get a UCC Open and Affirming church started in Brownsburg and after decades I started to attend. We marched in Pride, our music director, Sean Baker lead the way. It was just wonderful. The positive energy, the love….I wish that spirit could be infused everywhere.
I volunteered at my Methodist Church’s booth yesterday at the Pride festival and, like you, was delighted to see such a HUGE crowd – despite the terrific heat It felt like all of Indianapolis was there. So were many others from around the state and even out-of-state. It was heartening to see so many churches and businesses as well as a broad representation of other organizations with booths there.
One other observation is worth notice. Folks were happy, upbeat, celebratory, and full of goodwill and good cheer. The world could take a lesson from the Pride festival.
Simultaneously. the United Methodist Annual General Conference was meeting at the Convention Center as was the Republican State Convention. A member of my own church is leading a statewide effort to reconcile Methodist churches with LGBT folks who have not felt or been welcomed in some churches. Like you, I wish THOSE were the kind of efforts that make for intensive media coverage. Sadly the TV right now is focused on another mass murder in Florida which will consume so much media attention for the hours and days ahead.
Thank you Sheila for setting a positive standard once again for the rest of the media to follow.
An old friend from working with Mayor Hudnut’s administration, Tammara Tracey, posted a plea on Facebook for blood donations for survivors of the Orlando massacre and asked if anyone knows of open blood donor centers today. Please respond on Facebook if you can help. The Mayor of Orlando and police now officially reporting 50 dead and 53 wounded. Families are waiting for information regarding their loved ones who were there.
Over it; the shooter has been killed and identified and was known by Orlando authorities to have connections to ISIS so terrorism is a strong possibility, ISIS – Not Muslim – there is a difference just as there is a difference between a Christian and Governor Pence. MSNBC was doing a fine job reporting from Orlando till they reported a Florida law maker blamed this tragedy on the federal government for denying that part of Florida funds due to their tourist status. This is not the time to post political messages; this is a time for this country to come together, including all religions and religious leaders.
I pray that Senator David Perdue falls headlong into a wood chipper.
It doesn’t matter what one’s religion,race,caste and political persuasion…..Every single sub-group within America has targeted someone for their hatred….even America’s Left is guilty.
Americans have one thing in common.
Americans are filled with a lot of hate. It’s no wonder our number one export is destruction.
Irvin, from my first post today: ““Faith” is a set of assumptions about what cannot be known. ”
There’s reality about which mankind has discovered some; and there’s lots about which we know nothing. The existence of God is of the latter but so are many other things.
It’s not possible or productive to debate assumptions about what can’t be known. What would be the point?
Faith with a capital is how English describes assumptions about God (with another capital) but we have faith of some kind about many things we don’t know. Sometimes it’s necessary.
Joe has faith that Obama is incompetent as President but that’s something that doesn’t need assumptions because it can be and is known and therefore can be learned. In fact democracy assumes that responsible voters will invest the necessary time in learning it.
Why do you think that is William?
JoAnn, very well put. 50 lives terminated over any set of assumptions, opinions, about anything is an abomination and the very definition of extremism.
“We marched in Pride… It was just wonderful. The positive energy, the love….I wish that spirit could be infused everywhere.”
I was at Pride too, and it was the first time I have participated. Everyone was so kind to each other! I said to my friend, why can’t we treat each other like this all the time?
“Why do you think that is William?”
I think the propaganda in the U.S. is heavily propagated. It can be used within the confines of a congregation of a church. It is spread about by the media. It is reinforced by forums. People–not all–are willing to succumb to peer pressure. Many people are easily led. Some want to be led. Some will easily fall into line if it means they will garner an elevated status and acceptance within their tribe.
There’s big money in hate. The religious use it to reinforce their beliefs and to prove to themselves that they are the correct faith. Political tribes use the methods to reinforce their beliefs. Beliefs are a strong thing. They’re not tangible but they can be deadly.
Frankly,the selling of any politician to the public is no different than the selling of any religion to that very same public. That’s why I use a politician’s previous/record/actions as proof to any future endeavors coming from said politico.
Why do we export destruction? Because there is big money to be made. Hell,many here on this very forum believe supporting a war candidate is a good thing. They’re just as brainwashed as those whose are affixed to Faux News.
I don’t care what any professionals say wrt hate. One has to be conditioned to hate. That is why I can’t condone using fear as a platform to support a presidential candidate. Fear is the foundation for breeding a milieu of hate.
Religion was always been a great con, the 3-card Monty game that attracted enough good, kind people to keep up the facade. But it has only been in the lifetime of baby boomers that religion in the United States grew to become a political voting bloc of such overwhelming and obnoxious importance. If non-believers and those who believe in a personal god continue to pressure corporate religions, as the boomers die off, religion will finally settle back to where it once was, a mostly private issue among small communities of people who need it and who find benefit in it.
That should read as:
brainwashed as those whose EYES are are affixed to Faux News.
Ugh!
William, I agree 100%.
“Over it; the shooter has been killed and identified and was known by Orlando authorities to have connections to ISIS so terrorism is a strong possibility, ISIS – Not Muslim – there is a difference just as there is a difference between a Christian and Governor Pence.”
JoAnn, ISIS is Muslim, just like Pence is Christian. You do not get to exclude individuals within such a movement just because they do not behave the way you want them to behave. The truth is that Judaism, Christianity, and Islam all contain within them the seeds of ugliness, hatred, and violence. That some simpletons take them literally and use them as excuses to kill should surprise no one. Just like a great number of people use them as excuses to form tribes and find reasons to hate others.
Maybe the root cause of all that is teaching children to believe in imaginary beings who rule our lives instead of science, reason, and critical thinking.
We are all atheists about most of the gods that societies have ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further. —Richard Dawkins
“ISIS is Muslim” but the reverse is only rarely true.
After all most of the soldiers fighting ISIS are Muslim.
Thank you, Pete, I couldn’t respond to Over it without bypassing Sheila’s request that we be civil.
From one Nancy to another: I am sorry to hear of your disappointment with the group of Quakers you gave 13 years to. I am, I guess, a birthright Quaker. Still, it was a surprize to me to learn of how many different iterations of Quakerism there are. If you found some things to admire and uphold during your years attending Quaker meetings, I urge you to look around and inquire about other Quaker congregations. I assure you that all Quakers do not have issues with sexual identification or orientation – they are strongly inclusive.
I am not an expert in history, but you may be interested to know that many years past, there was a split in Quakerism. Among other concerns, some sought what are called unprogramed meetings, where there are no planned remarks, by anyone, and the group sits together in silence unless one of their number is moved to speak. Another side preferred programed services, which you seem to have described when you mentioned sermons – Richard Nixon belonged to such a group. It is my impression that the more doctrinaire, much less tolerant, individuals who espoused Quakerism went to the programed side.
I am working to accept that this programmed approach can also reflect what seems to me to be true Quakerism (my own experiences are all unprogramed), but for me, the essence of Quakerism is tolerance and I have a very hard time seeing anyone who seeks to exclude others from a Quaker group as being Quaker at all.
You will please excuse (I hope) my ‘history light’ approach, but please do not allow your impressions of Quakerism to be overtaken by such a negative experience. Please accept my apologies, as a Quaker, for what happened to you. I am so convinced of the reality of Quakers’ tolerant approach that I feel fine in making an apology on behalf of, at least, the unprogramed folks.
It is further my impression that many of the programmed congregations came to reside in the mid-west and the west. I expect, from comments in this blog, that Indiana is not the home of many of what I see as the tolerant side of this religion.
And, further, though I cannot say in any real way that I am a Christian, or a believer in any faithful belief system. Quakerism continues to be a beacon for me in their belief, and action, around tolerance. Yes, I have met and been MUCH frowned on by intolerant Quakers, but their attitudes seem as negatively frozen in the past as many of the individuals we consider in this ongoing discussion. I guess, among other beliefs, I believe that there is always a jerk, or a group of jerks, but the jerks do not define the world, they only try to. As we all herein keep saying, we do not have to let them!
Thank you for listening.
‘“ISIS is Muslim” but the reverse is only rarely true.
After all most of the soldiers fighting ISIS are Muslim.’
True, but how many Muslims worldwide believe that gays should be tolerated? That human life is more important than obedience to an ancient book? That apostasy should not be punished by death? That women are equal to men?
Sorry, I am not going to bend over backward to be tolerant of such idiocy. Or of Pence’s idiocy. Or of the idiocy that arises from any religion, be it harmful or hateful in any way.
“Thank you, Pete, I couldn’t respond to Over it without bypassing Sheila’s request that we be civil.”
That’s a cop out. If you can’t say it without being civil, then you have nothing valid to say.
Hello RN. I hope you read this column again today. You said in one of your remarks that you still believe in God. This response or question is not a put down or am I being critical. If you don’t mind, would you tell me why you believe in God. I will not find fault or be critical. I just want to know. Thank you. Irvin