Voting My Conscience

59 Comments

1. Perfect. Absolutely perfect description of my own views, and I hope others will follow your lead. I do look forward to a blog about your theories of Hillary hate. I think it would be eye-opening for many.

2. Voting for the “Lesser of two evils” is still voting for evil. In large part, that’s why we’re in the mess we’re in. Her campaign and the DNC rigged the primaries, violating the basic foundation of this nation. That is as bad as anything Trump has said.

3. Agree with Teresa on everything. I have my own views on the sources of “Hillary Haters” but I’d love to hear yours, Sheila.

4. Sheila’s comments:
   “Here’s my message to those who are planning to “vote their consciences.”

   At this point I MUST add those who say they will not vote for either presidential candidate! They are just as dangerous.

   “You may think that casting a “wasted” vote makes you virtuous, but the reality is that every non-Clinton vote cast in November helps Donald Trump.”

   Another message to those who are so hate-filled regarding both candidates they refuse to vote – if you don’t vote for either presidential candidate…PLEASE GO TO THE POLLS TO VOTE FOR THE STATE LEVEL CANDIDATES WE NEED WHO WILL TAKE ACTION IN CONGRESS AND THE THE DEMOCRATIC GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATES.

   We must remove state level leadership from Pence and his ilk. I came in after the target of Maine’s Republican Governor Le Page’s ugly, irrational, pornographic name-calling diatribe which is a primary example of how low the GOP has fallen. That was followed by his threat/promise to never again speak to the media in his lifetime. Trump did not take the campaign reporters to Mexico for his ill-advised meeting with President Nieto. Name-calling, lies, distortions and pseudo-Christian based laws add up to the full GOP support of Donald Trump. They are unable to use self-control to rein themselves in seeking to reign over this country, “damn the torpedoes and full speed ahead”, so we must do it for them. We can only do it at the polls on November 8th. If anyone who watched that racial profiling, long-winded, lie-filled rant by Donald Trump last night and still consider Hillary to be as unqualified as he is – YOU ARE THE PROBLEM TODAY.

   I don’t want to vote for her either but I will not help Trump and Pence get elected to deprive me and millions of Americans of our civil and human rights.

5. Excellent, from your lops to G-d’s ears.

6. Thank you Sheila! I also hope that you write about your own views on the sources of the “Hillary Haters” but I think I already know what they are. Without hearing them I already agree with you. It’s the result of one of the longest running, well almost the longest running, disinformation campaigns that the Republicans and those that spin the truth for them have run. I agree with you, Donald Trump must not become President of the United States under any circumstances. The spectacle from Phoenix that I saw last night on the tube should be all the proof that a rational person would need to reach that conclusion.

7. Oh yeah, I remember! Vast right-wing conspiracy. Got it! Thanks for fighting to preserve America as we know it.

8. I couldn’t bare to search or watch the speech from Trump last night and every summary of it has made a mockery of him so why bother. I will vote for Hillary if for no other reason but the Supreme Court nominations. After that conversation with the driver from the Czech Republic for 2 hrs from O’hare to my home town, which I can’t seem to shake, I will do everything I possibly can to make sure that Trump does not get elected. I have been silently monitoring the right wing sites just to get a grip of their views, and I honestly cannot comprehend the hate for Hillary that I read. It’s all nonsense. It’s all conspiracy theories with no facts whatsoever. I spent 10 minutes reading a thread from one of my ‘facebook friends’ that took Hillary to the woodshed and lowered my IQ just for reading it. I know that the Dem establishment has some issues, but the other side is freaking crazy. And brainwashed by right wing media to support a fascist like Trump. They cannot even construct a proper sentence much less a rebuttal for their hatred of anyone that leans somewhat liberal. And President Obama comes up every time in their support of Trump but they can’t seem to understand, that he’s not even on the ballot. He’s termed out. Ugh, it’s exhausting just to keep up with the nonsense and I am still trying to get my body back into the European time zone even after a week back home.

9. JoAnn, et al – there are no down ballot state candidates in Indiana who will change the status quo. Bayh and Gregg? Don’t make me laugh. Angela Demaree can’t beat Susan Brooks. A vote for Jill Stein is not a vote for Trump nor is it virtuous. It is a vote to begin the long, arduous process of building a progressive party from school boards to the White House. Predictions of global disaster are just that- predictions. IF Trump wins (not a certainty) the military chiefs are unlikely to follow any disastrous orders he issues. A Democratic Senate will check Trump on non-military issues. I dare to say my predictions are as valid as yours at this point. It took neoliberals and conservatives decades to do their destructive work. There is no easy or quick way for progressives to build a party. In the meantime threats of Armageddon won’t deter progressives from the word demanded of us. Greens, Working Families, Building a New Congress and other passionate groups are at work. Pick yours and get to work. I’m tempted to close by quoting Chicken Little. But then you all will really pile on with the animus and derision. Feel free.

10. Neal: Every primary election is rigged by the party machine (both parties). I’m at a loss to explain how Trump won the republican nomination, but it’s time for those who argue that he is qualified to be president by virtue of “telling it like it is” to come back to reality.

11. The basis for Hillary haters is first and foremost that she is a woman. How dare a woman in this country even think about being our President, much less actually attempt to gain this coveted office!

    I don’t believe that she is any more guilty of using money to gain power than any of her male counterparts. I actually believe that she is much less guilty…AND…she has had to work SO MUCH harder to acheive her accomplishments than any man has ever had to. No man running for this office would Ever be as viciously attacked as she has been.

    What really really bothers me is the sheer volume of women in this country who are so ignorant about her intelligence and capability. In this day and age, how can they still think that any of the Republican men that originally ran for President this year are even half as intelligent or capable as she is? (I am only speaking of Hillary here – not of any previous female attempts at VP, etc, such as Palin or Bachman).

    The extremely high level of ignorance in this country truly frightens me. Right here in Indiana our public education system has been on a downhill slide over the past few decades. Thanks to ALEC, the Friedman Foundation, and the leaders of the Republican party in this state like Daniels, Pence and our legislature.

12. Wayne; we are “playing the odds” at all levels of this election. Having lived in Las Vegas; I am well aware the odds always favor the house…or in this instance…the House and the Senate. So; play or get out of the way.

13. Many of you are miscalculating the power of the forces that are supporting Trump. You need to understand it’s not just the Republicans who are out of touch with the socio/political realities in the U.S. at this moment in time. I would also include Dana Millbank and Thomas Friedman in that group.

14. Sorry for my mistake, Millbank has only one (l).

15. But if we don’t vote for Gary Johnson, then either Hillary or Trump could win.

16. JoAnn, exactly!

17. Any political party that would enable the likes of Donald Trump to become its presidential candidate is not fit to govern at any level. Yes, if you can’t vote for Clinton, then vote the rest of the ticket. It’s time to put the current Republican Party on the ash heap of history and give rational conservatives an opportunity to start over.

18. JoAnn,

    “If anyone who watched that racial profiling, long-winded, lie-filled rant by Donald Trump last night and still consider Hillary to be as unqualified as he is – YOU ARE THE PROBLEM TODAY.”

    The presidential race to many is about white supremacy and not about who is the best qualified. And as long as that issue is not successfully engaged, the chance of Donald Trump being elected President will grow and grow. At his point in time, Donald Trump can only ascend and Hillary Clinton can only descend, in the long run, which is being reflected already in some of the recent polls.

    “The identity of Trump’s core supporters–the racists, misogynysts, anti-Semites and xenophobes who have crawled out from under their rocks to cheer him on,” are only those we see on the surface. Unfortunately, most Republicans and many other Americans favor Trump’s racial policies even though he personally turns them off.

    Because of the above reality, it’s my opinion, that Hillary Clinton needs MUCH MORE “ammunition” than the support of her “cheerleaders” to beat Donald Trump.

19. Best line from Sheila’s post…

    “As libertarian P.J. O’Rourke put it when he declared he’d be voting for Clinton, “she’s wrong, but she’s wrong within normal parameters.””

    I can handle that as explaining my vote for Clinton.

20. You are writing to enlightened people about a system which is 100% corrupted from the top-down. Voting for either republican or democrat means nothing in the United States.

    In 1949, Albert Einstein wrote a masterful assessment of our country, including our corrupted, two-party, political system:

    “The result of these developments is an oligarchy of private capital the enormous power of which cannot be effectively checked even by a democratically organized political society. This is true since the members of legislative bodies are selected by political parties, largely financed or otherwise influenced by private capitalists who, for all practical purposes, separate the electorate from the legislature. The consequence is that the representatives of the people do not in fact sufficiently protect the interests of the underprivileged sections of the population. Moreover, under existing conditions, private capitalists inevitably control, directly or indirectly, the main sources of information (press, radio, education). It is thus extremely difficult, and indeed in most cases quite impossible, for the individual citizen to come to objective conclusions and to make intelligent use of his political rights.”

21. I am voting for the only candidate who is fully prepared to be President. HRC, and I have the t-shirt! Hope that if Trump wins, unlikely but possible, he will be given fake nuclear code which will trigger some warning sign, such as all red stoplights across America for a minute, so we will know what has been attempted & thwarted.

22. Marv; his speech last night was total racial-profiling which is based on white supremacy. Only the LGBTQ faction, control of them being left up to Pence, are mixed skin toned voters. Thinking voters recognize Trump and his supporters in one way by the GOP openly ignoring David Duke and the KKK support. I know you and I don’t agree on the validity or usefulness of the Southern Poverty Law center but…their “Intelligence Report” listing of hate groups would be a good source for identifying Trump’s voting bloc nationally.

    If we were having a presidential election based on the best qualified candidates, the race would be between Sanders and Kasich.

23. I would like to comment on the “Hillary haters” and the negative and frightening effect they are having on this election. I do not hate Hillary Clinton; I do question some of her negative publicity due simply to the vast amount covering several years of her direct involvement in government. She did not cause the Benghazi attack; with literally thousands of E-mails on that single-server she now regrets using, the law of averages would result in some errors and slip-ups. The GOP is never going to let these issues go any more than the birthers and believers that President Obama is an anti-white race Muslim will give up those beliefs.

    My distrust of Hillary Clinton is her dues-paying membership in and support from corporate America…the 1%ers who are currently in control of our “NO” Congress. On that issue she is no different than Donald Trump. I read Bernie’s letter to the chairman of “Bernie or Bust” organization and copied his partial list of requirements prior to endorsing Hillary. I had it in hand during her acceptance speech and she did mention them, some in passing. I question how much effort and backing she will put into their agreed upon economic issues regarding the majority of Americans who are low to middle-income levels and struggling to maintain and survive. I have little pride, excitement or elation that the United States of American has finally nominated a woman to run for the residency because that woman is Hillary Clinton.

24. Ooops, that should say “presidency” not “residency”

25. JoAnn, for the past year, we have disagreed over the role of the Southern Poverty Law Center.

    Maybe you can understand my criticism better when Sheila comments: “The identity of Trump’s core supporters–the racists, misogynysts, anti-Semites and xenophobes who have crawled out from under their rocks to cheer him on–should give pause to anyone willing to narrow the margin by which America rejects him.”

    The EXTREMIST like the K.K.K. or Aryan Nation is all that the SPLC has dealt with. Morris Dees, when confronted in the past, has admitted that he doesn’t deal with the RACIAL SYSTEM.

    The SPLC has refused to look at the ROOT of the racism which lies in many of the evangelical churches where the K.K.K. and other white supremacy EXTREMIST organizations have been finding their recruits for years. Since the SPLC’s founding in the early 80’s, the white supremacy ideology has run rampant throughout Christendom and not just in the evangelical movement.

    What started as a subterranean program of anti-Semitism located in the leadership of the Southern Baptist Convention and NEVER confronted by the Jewish Establishment has, since the early 80’s, been mutating into virulent hatred for many other minorities since then.

    The white supremacy movement is much, much more powerful than what can be observed on the surface by East Coast reporters located in such metropolitan areas like New York and Washingon, D.C.

    This same phenomenon occurred in Germany during the 20’s and 30’s with the news coming out of Berlin. They (the reporters) had very poor understanding of provincial areas like Munich because of their focus on the interaction in the urban areas where they were located.

    This misperception and resulting miscalculation played a big part in the terrible catastrophe that eventually occurred.

26. Voting for Trump scares me because of the concern that he could cause a nuclear war. Not because he might fly off the handle and bomb Mexico for not agreeing to pay for the wall, but because of the short time frame for making a decision about a nuclear launch, and the form such a launch would take, and also because of the subtleties in negotiations in a tense nuclear confrontation like the Cuban Missile Crisis. Subtlety is not Trump’s strong point

    This article from Politico will probably scare you to death, but may make you feel a bit more comfortable with Trump starting a nuclear war in a huff, but it does talk in detail about how the nuclear launch process works. Scary stuff.

    The closest we came to such a call occurred in 1979, when the consoles at our early warning hub in Colorado lit up with indications of a large-scale Soviet missile attack. President Jimmy Carter’s national security adviser, Zbigniew Brzezinski, received back-to-back calls in the middle of the night informing him of the imminent nuclear destruction of the United States. The second call reported an all-out attack. Brzezinski was seconds away from waking Carter to pass on the dreadful news and convince him of the need to order retaliation without delay (within a six-minute deadline). Brzezinski was sure the end was near.
    Just before he picked up the phone to call Carter, Brzezinski received a third call, this time canceling the alarm. It was a mistake caused by human and technical error. A training tape simulating an all-out Soviet attack had inadvertently slipped into the actual real-time attack early warning network. The impending nuclear holocaust was a mirage that confused the duty crew. (They were fired for taking eight minutes instead of the required three minutes to declare their degree of confidence that an attack against North America was underway.)”

    http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/06/2016-donald-trump-nuclear-weapons-missiles-nukes-button-launch-foreign-policy-213955#ixzz4J0dFrnra
    Follow us: @politico on Twitter | Politico on Facebook

    But even more instructive than this is the Cuban Missile Crisis where we very nearly ended up in a nuclear war with the Soviet Union. Khrushchev was under pressure from other party officials in the Soviet Union, and was trying to resolve the conflict over the missiles in Cuba. During this crisis, at one point a Soviet nuclear submarine nearly launched a nuclear tipped torpedo at a US ship, but it required three officers to launch and one voted no. There were communications behind the scenes between Khrushchev and Kennedy, including a secret letter and communication by a Soviet spy over lunch with John Scali, of ABC News, who was asked to pass on to talk to his friends at high levels in the State Department to see if we were interested in a diplomatic solution. The whole thing involved a lot of subtle distinctions as to what was going on, with different and contradictory messages coming in from different sources about the intent of the Soviet Union. The idea of Trump being patient enough to work this kind of a crisis through to a safe conclusion is what really scares me. The movie Seven Days in May give a reasonably accurate idea of the subtleties of the situation (although one of the main characters in the move, I have read, was not much involved in actuality, and another member of the administration was), or read the Wikipedia article:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_Missile_Crisis

27. Ooops, The second a third paragraphs (that run together) should be in quotes as they are from the Politico article. Not sure how I missed that.

28. Eee gads, I need to slow down, third and forth paragraphs.

29. Sheila, would you please comment on the push to get people in “safe” states (i.e., states in which polls show the results as certainly going one way or the other) to write-in Stein in an effort to get 5% of the national vote and thereby get funding for a third party in 2020? What I’ve been saying is that, in this election, all “safe” bets are off–that regardless of what polls say, the end result, even in states that have traditionally gone overwhelmingly red or blue, isn’t certain this time, because this election defies traditional choices. But I do support the creation of a viable third party and would like to help bring that about if it’s a real choice. It just doesn’t seem to me to be the right moment to take ANY chances on letting Trump take the Oval Office. When I express this perspective, I’m challenged as naive, if not ignorant of political realities. Since I very highly value your perspective, could you tell us what it is regarding third-party write-ins in “safe” states like Indiana, which nearly everyone expects to go for Trump? Thanks!

30. Todd,

    You wrote “You are writing to enlightened people about a system which is 100% corrupted from the top-down. Voting for either republican or democrat means nothing in the United States”.

    I suspect our current election cycle, Election 2016, does bring many thoughtful voters to a realization that our current two-party system is dysfunctional as per the two unpopular and flawed candidates we’re given as choices. At this late hour, we’re left with knowing either Clinton or Trump will be our next President, but we should view Election 2016 in a broader sense as a wake-up call for both political parties to reassess their directions, directions that fail to consider ‘the people’, the folks who ensure that our country operates on a daily basis.

    It’s worrisome to note that many voters from both sides of the aisle are more comfortable ‘talking about people’ than talking about ‘ideas’. What will the voters discuss once the election is over? That will decide the future of our country.

31. JoAnn,

    I don’t deny that the SPLC does help with the likes of their “Intelligence Report.” But they have joined with the Anti-Defamation League who has, for over 45 years, been preventing, which I might suggest, my more vital information from being disseminated.

    As I’ve mentioned before on this blog, they have done the same thing to Bill Moyers when he tried to reveal the actions of the Southern Baptist Convention in the late 80’s.

    This is why in a few weeks, it very likely, we’re ALL going to be “up shit’s creek without a paddle.”

32. I usually tend to agree with the research that Sheila posts here someplace between sort of and most of.

    Not today’s.

    She has found and perfectly revealed in words the entire opportunity that we right now here in the US have in front of us.

    To save the nation as it was conceived to be by the Constitition.

    One choice, Clinton, is to continue the great experiment in democracy launched by the founders of the nation.

    The other choice, Trump, is to end it. To replace it with another experiment in who knows what.

    That choice would be to make Trumpence the new founder of something unknown.

33. Saying we should keep the two-party system simply because it is working is like saying the Titanic voyage was a success because a few people survived on life rafts.
    Eugene McCarthy

    Here in Indianapolis we witness the effect of this the Republicans and Democrats (really the Republicrat Party) dumping millions of tax dollars into the pockets of the Pacers and Colts. Need your street or sidewalks fixed SO- Sorry No money.
    ***********************************************************************

    When the Democrats are attacked for [inciting class warfare] they shrink back. They don’t say what obviously should be said, “Yes, there is class warfare. There has always been class warfare in this country.” The reason the Democrats shrink back is because the Democrats and the Republicans are on the same side of the class war. They have slightly different takes. The Democrats are part of the upper class that is more willing to make concessions to the lower class in order to maintain their power.

    HOWARD ZINN, interview, Identity Theory, Jan. 10, 2001
    ======================================================================
    Interesting to still read that those that oppose Hillary are strong woman haters.
    Well how do you explain the fact that the Clinton Foundation has taken millions of dollars from some Gulf Oil States including Saudi Arabia?? The Gulf Oil states are models for human rights repression, in particular woman. Ends justifies the means???

    United States has formalized a billion dollar deal to sell 84 more F-15 fighter jets to the Saudi Arabian government. Dec 29, 2011. The F-15 is manufactured by Boeing.

    Clinton’s October 2009 visit to Russia was dominated by discussion of Iranian sanctions, but she made clear that a top priority was Boeing’s interest in selling planes for use by a new state-owned Russian airline, Rosavia. “This is a shameless pitch for Rosavia . . . to buy Boeing aircraft,” she said while touring a Boeing facility in Moscow. Hillary Clinton

    In 2010, two months after Boeing won its $3.7 billion Russia deal, the company announced a $900,000 contribution to the William J. Clinton Foundation.

    Or read this – https://theintercept.com/2016/08/25/why-did-the-saudi-regime-and-other-gulf-tyrannies-donate-millions-to-the-clinton-foundation/

34. As an aside and definitely off topic, I trust that our Florida friends, Pete and Marv, are safe and sound from the current tropical storm. I’m watching for good news from family driving north from the Apalachicola and Jacksonville areas as they head north to the Indianapolis area for the long Labor Day Weekend.

35. To believe that Hillary and the DNC “rigged” a primary system that has been in place for years is insulting to me. I have voted in every election, every primary, every municipal contest since I was 18. I know how to register, how to check my polling place, etc. because my vote matters. This race was not even as close as 2008 in states won or the popular vote. I do support making changes to the system, such as eliminating caucuses, increasing early voting and making all primaries closed with a 30 day deadline to declare party affiliation. those things can protect my party and allow independent voters to be part of my party if they are engaged and excited about a candidate.
    Furthermore, it would be great if all primaries could be completed in 3 months, with a general election three months after that. Too much time is spent on this, and con artist like Trump have learned to play to the 24 hour media cycle.

36. BSH. Thanks. I’m in NY now but my FL community was missed but unfortunately Marv is among those whose bad fortune was the product of our good fortune. Not much wind is expected but lots of rain. A reminder to all of the tiny difference between sea level elevation and most of Florida’s.

37. Bennet, the ad hominem attacks on Clinton have defined a fictional monster. The alternative is a real one.

38. Pete, thanks for the update. Best wishes for Marv in Jacksonville.

39. In the New York Times today, Charles Blow said that Kellyanne Conway was obe of the most dangerous people in America today as she “puts words in Trump’s mouth” trying g to make him seem less hateful and crazy. I absolutely agree. I think cable news and today even public radio does a disservice to our country when they have pundits analysing his policy speeches. The man has no policy he has talking points and rants. He is dangerous and that should be the headline of the day—everyday.

40. We might consider the dangers of climate change and the long term effects of the policies which will come out of this election.

41. JoAnn Green:
    “If we were having a presidential election based on the best qualified candidates, the race would be between Sanders and Kasich.”

    But, JoAnn, the reality is that the race is between Clinton and Trump. Tell me, please, JoAnn, for whom shall I vote?

42. OMG, when you query JoAnn for an exact person she sees as the candidate she will support in Election 2016, what is your purpose? Are you seriously interested in how JoAnn will cast her vote in Election 2016, or are you more interested in putting JoAnn on a hot spot?

43. Who is so desperate as to take a job putting words in Trump’s mouth such that his inate ignorance won’t be revealed?

44. Pete,

    “Who is so desperate as to take a job putting words in Trump’s mouth such that his inate ignorance won’t be revealed?”

    😉 I am responding with my husband’s default answer.

    “Beats me. And, I know damned near everything.”

    Good question you posed.

45. “Any political party that would enable the likes of Donald Trump to become its presidential candidate is not fit to govern at any level.” That describes the Democratic Party, for nominated such a flawed candidate.

    Kennedy knows that a third party vote in Indiana, and at least 40 other states, have no prospect of helping Trump win. If HRC doesn’t win in a landslide, it’ll come down to 2 or 3 states, and everyone will know which states they are by Nov. 1 (bet, Ohio &/or Florida). Everyone everywhere else should feel free to vote their conscience without fear of “helping Trump win.”

46. Marv, you know lots.

    Ever hear of this group?

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_for_National_Policy

    I hate conspiracy theory but sometimes doubt myself.

47. Paul, wow, just wow. The longest stretch that I can imagine.

48. Pete,

    “Ever hear of this group?”

    Did you need to remind me of that awful crowd with Hermine coming my way? Just joking. Thanks [also BSH] for the concerns. I’m safe. The big problem in Jacksonville will be the potential of a massive power outage which usually comes our way. [ tornadoes are also a danger since we will be on the leeward side of the projected path]

    We have very large trees….. pines and oaks and it doesn’t take much for a branch or a large limb to fall on the power lines. If you don’t hear from me for a few days, it will probably be that the electric power to my condo will be dead, not me.

49. Marv, thanks for checking in. Stay safe.

50. Gettin’ awful tired of people telling me how to vote. Enough already.

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