So much for the American experiment.
So much for the belief that in a marketplace of ideas, people would choose the better ones–or even be able to distinguish among ideas, propaganda and conspiracy theories.
So much for e pluribus unum and the lovely fantasy of a diverse citizenry coming together around a civic table.
However you characterize the deep cultural and educational divide that led to this place, no one who actually understood what the government does and how it does it could have voted to put a person like Trump in charge of it.
Last night, a lot of us lost the country we thought we lived in, the country we wanted to hand down to our children and grandchildren. What happens now is anyone’s guess, but one thing is sure–it will be very ugly.
Ken there is one difference between the Clinton and Reagan administrations and Obama’s – tkhe collapse of the GOP as a source of legitimacy due to the actual performance of Bush II.
They simply stopped all efforts at governance in order to con their way back. Before yesterday I would have said the America was not that easily fooled.
I was wrong. We are collectively dumber than a box of rocks.
The country chose incompetent fascism over capable democracy. Democracy is dead. We now live in a fascist state. Good bye and good luck with Trump.
Bill W.,
I believe the magic word is COMMUNITY. I was fortunate to have been the major strategist in two very important COMMUNITY led political breakthroughs: Breaking the color barrier in college football in the Deep South and the victorious one man,one vote battle in Dallas. Both were successful only because of a COMMUNITY, not a political party or movement, decided it needed to be done. We as a nation are a COMMUNITY, though, at the present time, it is something which is very hard to understand.
Democracy has failed. It’s as simple as that. The Republicans, of course, the ones who are actually in charge, are evil psychopaths who exploit the stupid to retain power. But it is democracy in general that is a failure. The American people were not ready to be self-governing. It’s been a nice ride, but nothing would surprise me now. I will be looking into other options for my family.
Bill; I will remain the law abiding, tax paying, bill paying , kind and caring American and continue to help family and friends when I can. Trump is NOT going to turn me into one of his hate filled, bigoted clones. I recognize him for what he is and hate everything he stands for…which is different than hating the person as he does with so many entire groups of people. As for prayer; before going to vote yesterday morning I offered my life to God to prevent Trump’s election. I did not do that in jest nor did I make the offer lightly; my belief and trust in whatever greater power is over this world, whatever form it takes, is with me at all times.
What is so shocking and also sad is that we are surrounded by neighbors we thought we knew but had no idea that they would support a man who has so many disastrous faults. I am so sad that all the progressive inroads we thought we had accomplished will now be repealed, discarded and trashed.
First, Trump backed down a bit in his victory speech – no words about arresting Hillary and throwing her in jail. Although I suppose he could wait and get his new attorney general, Chris Christy I assume, to do it later. I am not expecting it, but I think we need to do everything we can to hold Trump to his victory speech, in which he proclaimed that he wanted to mend the divide in our country and that he wanted to talk to Democrats about their concerns as he makes policy. I have long suspected that much of his rhetoric was just that, that he said many of the things he said because in order to get people behind him. I only hope that I am right, and am very afraid that I am wrong. But I have always been a glass half full person; if nothing else it helps me not freak out so bad.
a
On the bigger picture, I think this started at least back after World War II, witinh our foreign aid, and probably before, but I don’t know the history before. Foreign aid, then and now has really been corporate aid. If you haven’t read The Ugly American, go find a copy and read it. Our foreign aid is being used to build the a hydro-electric dam in a third world country in Southeast Asia. A country with dirt roads and paths, essentially no real infrastructure. A corporation is going to build a factory near the dam and employ the local peasants. Of course in the real world, if you take a culture with a subsistence economy and bring in a money based economy, the existing culture is nearly infallibly broken down. In the meantime, there is a US chicken farmer in the country trying to figure out what to do to help these peasants. They have chickens, but they are scrawny and only lay 2 or 3 eggs a week. He figures that if they imported 10,000 Rhode Island Red chickens and cross bred them with the existing chickens, the crossbreed chickens would have more meat, and thereby protein, and also lay more eggs, for even more protein, which would let the peasants feed themselves with less work and then use their spare time to produce other things and grow the local economy. But the State Department isn’t at all interested. After all the hydroelectric dam isn’t just helping the US company that wants to build the factory, but all of the earth-moving equipment to build the dam has to be bought from Caterpillar. 10,000 Rhode Island Reds might help a few chicken farmers who sell the chickens, but they aren’t really going to help American industry. And so American foreign aid has gone for decades, and still goes.
So our foreign aid mostly helps US corporations and converts local economies to a money economy that destroys their culture.
But what is the other result of this foreign aid? It builds a corporate infrastructure overseas and leads to globalization. Instead of actually helping the local economies in foreign lands by encouraging them to build their own economies, it builds infrastructer, the capital for which is provided by and the infrastructure then is owned by American corporations. And not only are the capital assets foreign owned, but the profits also go overseas.
It’s a lot like racism. When slavery ended, Jim Crow came along. When Jim Crow ended, Stop and Frisk came along. When Colonization ended, we came up with “Foreign Aid” which was just another way to colonize third world nations.
Corporatization is the real problem underlying all of this. The owners of capital, the money movers, have always had the real power.
Ken,
you seem to conveniently forget that prior presidents did not have to deal with the Tea party that has taken over the GOP, like Obama has had to deal with. Prior to them, both the GOP and Dems compromised to accomplish legislation. The GOP recognizes that they have allowed the tea party to infiltrate and take over their party. Even they know it has not been good for our country.
“People in this blog were expecting a new dawn of enlightenment. I get that you are disappointed.” ??? How in the world could you have possibly come to that conclusion? We were hoping to avoid the calamity that Trump will cause. I don’t believe that any of us were true Clinton supporters.
“Please don’t spend 4 more years (or 2) in self-congratulatory superiority convinced that all Trump supporters were part of the basket of deplorables.”
Why would you be so bold as to put words into my mouth?
And then you chose to personally attack me with this statement – “Try this for a conversation starter–When someone expresses a view wildly different from yours, instead of saying “stupid, brainwashed, evil, etc.”
The statements above, Ken, are why you are not well liked on this blog. You choose to go overboard and personally attack others. With those statements YOU just proved your complete lack of an ability to abide by your own rules that you demand others follow.
How very ill-mannered and authoritarian of you!
Winner: Alec Baldwin
Prize: Four year part time gig on SNL
Loser: Everybody Else
Helen,
It’s called the”lifeboat theory.” You throw someone off the boat so you can make it. The problem is that once he or she is in the water they will join with others to try everything they can to overturn your lifeboat. Sometimes people forget that fact. The theory comes from a deep, deep hatred of the OTHER.
GALJohnson,
You are so right!
Trump did not so much win as Secretary Clinton lost. We know that. It will be a long, tough four years with the Republican triumvirate , including a president with zippo political or international experience. Perhaps he will turn to “Two Corinthians” for guidance. May God help us all!
Now, for a long, relaxing bath in Pine Sol to try to remove some of the filth spewed by this so-called winner.
For the love of anything that is holy Nancy, I was trying to suggest a way that thinking people could find a path out of the wilderness. You perceive my efforts to unite in addressing the ridiculousness that was Bush43 haters and Obama haters with dialogue instead of diatribe. I put no words in your mouth nor accused you of anything. I perceive that this group has above average intelligence and thought a renewed collaboration with smart people might begin to resolve the negativity of tea party and occupy folks.
I am literally sick–physically and emotionally, and I am afraid for the future. Is this how future elections will go? I am bewildered–how could so many people vote for a lying, misogynist, racist, xenophobe, anti-Muslim, anti-Semitic egomaniac? Why doesn’t the interference of the Russian government in this election matter? Why doesn’t the interference of the FBI in this election matter? Why doesn’t the fact that he lost all 3 debates, that he lacks the temperament, knowledge of basic civics and ability to compromise, all critical requirements for the job of President, matter? What does matter–showing the Washington insiders who’s boss? In their quest to express their displeasure with Washington insider politics, didn’t those who voted for [the un-named asshole “UNA” in my vocabulary for the next 4 years] realize what they were voting for?
Pundits have said that this country has survived bad times before, but we pulled through because we are Americans and realize that there is something much more important than politics at stake. That’s true as far as it goes, but this is because at the end of the day, regardless of their positions on issues and personal flaws, all previous Presidents were PATRIOTS! The UNA is not, never has been, and never will be, a PATRIOT. UNA ran for President because it is the ultimate ego trip.
I am afraid where UNA’s ego trip will take us, but it won’t be to a good place. I truly fear for the future–the stock market is already down, 20 million people will be losing health coverage, exclusions for pre-existing conditions and lifetime caps on health coverage all back, Medicare cuts, Social Security turned over to “investors”, God only knows what he’d do in the Middle East, and a mentally unstable egomaniac who cannot be trusted with a Twitter account with access to nuclear codes. Is he really going to have Hillary Clinton arrested and tried? Again, what were UNA’s voters thinking–“we’ll show those Washington insiders”. Grab your ass, because you’re about to get a lesson you won’t like.
The only good thing I see are that we Hoosiers won’t have to look at and listen to Pence every day. The trade-offs are: Guiliani as Attorney General, Gingrich as Secretary of State….and so forth ad nauseum. Now you know why I have a headache and heartburn. Think how President Obama and Bill Clinton must feel–they’ll be forced to attend UNA’s inauguration and pretend not to be dying inside.
Pete! I invite you to stop congratulating yourself for superior intellect and work toward enlightening the unannointed instead of treating them with contempt. I know you think I am brainwashed which won’t make it easy but I really am trainable.
Ken – I strongly suggest that you re-read your comments before claiming that you didn’t accuse me or any other readers of anything or put words in my mouth.
Here they are again:
People in this blog were expecting a new dawn of enlightenment.
Please don’t spend 4 more years (or 2) in self-congratulatory superiority convinced that all Trump supporters were part of the basket of deplorables.
Try this for a conversation starter–When someone expresses a view wildly different from yours, instead of saying “stupid, brainwashed, evil, etc.
It would be wise of you to refer to yourself when suggesting new dialogue, rather than “suggesting” that the rest of us do as you say. You absolutely DID take on a tone of judgement, accusation and superiority.
Not long ago people were talking and writing about the contraction and death of the Republican Party as national force. It seems that was wishful thinking.
As A Bernie Bot, I take no pleasure in this outcome. As I recall when the Democratic Primary was going on Bernie was beating Trump in the polls by a greater margin than Clinton. The Trumpet was endlessly fed and covered by the McMega-Media. Sanders was starved by the McMega-Media. The Super Delegates of the Democratic establishment had their finger on scale for Clinton.
So who are these Super Delegates: 1.) 437 elected members (with 433 votes) from the Democratic National Committee (including the chairs and vice-chairs of each state’s Democratic Party), 2.) 20 distinguished party leaders (DPL), consisting of current and former presidents, current and former vice-presidents, former congressional leaders, and former DNC chairs, 3.) 191 Democratic members of the United States House of Representatives (including non-voting delegates from DC and territories), 4.) 47 Democratic members of the United States Senate (including Washington, DC shadow senators) 5.) 21 Democratic governors (including territorial governors and the Mayor of the District of Columbia). These people have immense power, but no accountability for the results of failure.
What should be very obvious is the Super Delegate System needs to swept away. The people on the DNC especially at the top should be given the boot.
The Republicans here in Indiana made a clean sweep at the State Wide Offices. Gregg and Bayh were rejected big time, but these were the candidates the Democratic Establishment selected.
Ken,
The day that President Obama was inaugurated Congressional Republicans went low.
Does anybody think that Democrats will go high now?
American politics have been redefined.
Natacha; your comments after so many from those, like you and I, who are physically and emotionally sick today, brought the days of Goldsmith’s administration as mayor vividly to my mind. My inner ear disease was minor and had not changed in 18 years with annual tests and exams; he took office January 1st and March 26th was the first time I was hauled from the City-County Building by ambulance to Methodist ER. That day I was the FIFTH to leave by ambulance in my department alone. Six times I was rolled out in a wheelchair for family to pick me up. By September 17th I was in surgery to have my right inner ear removed; this was the beginning of my disability due to nothing but stress. Two years later I was declared totally disabled by three doctors and no longer allowed to work. There is no rehabilitation for my disability. My doctor lost count of the number of his patients he was treating for stress and anxiety who were city employees. The friend of a friend was a nurse at Wishard Hospital; she lost count of the number of patients coming into the ER thinking they were having a stroke or heart attack but were diagnosed with stress and anxiety – all city employees. I tell you this in case your problems do not ease soon; do not ignore them, they are very real and can become serious. Goldsmith was only a mayor; I don’t want to imagine what damage a president can do or how many people already with medical problems who fear losing medical care due to Trump. This is NOT a simple political loss for those of us who voted against him; this is our financial security as well as possible life and death medical problems. We must not let Donald Trump kill our spirit or our soul; we must fight to stay strong and it is vital to support one another through this ordeal.
I’m outta here. Job lined up in British Columbia. Good luck everybody.
Trump needs to send thank you notes to FBI Directory Comey for his help to keep the email server nonsense alive and to V Putan for hacking the DNC email servers and giving it all to Wikileaks.
Trump and his Tea Party Movement won the election unopposed. There was no opposition to the Tea Party other than Hillary Clinton’s pitiful outburst of DEPLORABLE. The only supposed organized opposition to the Tea Party Movement has been from the Coffee Party. I’m sorry to say this whole affair has turned out to be almost comical.
The issue from the beginning has been about race. And so far no organization, white or black, has been willing to tackle it head-on, especially during the past presidential race. It’s not going away. And one day it will come back with vengeance.
As many of you know, I’ve tried to warn about all of this, but to no avail, since the first week Trump entered the race.
The parallels to Hitler and Nazi Germany are terrifying., especially so on this anniversary of Kristellnacht. This feels like facing the inevitable decline of the American ethos. I fear for our grandchildren who will have to deal with the fallout.
It cured my pride in America.
It’s been about Hitler and Nazi Germany from the beginning. We need to remember 60% of the Christian churches there voted to be Nazified.
Ron Skurat
Congrats to you! I am jealous.
Marv,
I must admit that I don’t have very much knowledge at all about Hitler’s rise to power. I am only vaguely aware of his atrocities after he took control.
Your vast knowledge about that period in world history gave you an insight that the rest of us struggle to understand. At least that is the case for me.
I’m not sure that we have to take all of this sitting down.
Pete,
I lost my sense of pride for this country (and especially of being an Indiana citizen) many months ago. I publicly stated a few weeks ago that I will no long stand for our national anthem. I just don’t believe in what it is supposed to stand for.
Nancy; I’m with you, but I never had any pride in Indiana to lose, especially after visiting Toronto, Canada, and living in Las Vegas, both cosmopolitan cities, years ago. As for the National Anthem; I agree with you, it is not required to stand except for members of the military. I will add the questionable usage of the term “…one nation, under God…” during the pledge. That term was added years after the original pledge was written and it comes under the Constitutional protection of the 1st Amendment – say it or not – it is freedom of speech which tacitly includes the freedom NOT to speak. Also, hand over heart is not a requirement; the military are required to salute. The original salute during the pledge was changed from being the Nazi raised right arm and hand for obvious reasons.
While I am bitching I will add that I am already sick of being ordered to say “Merry Christmas”; I have Jewish and Atheist friends so this is inappropriate. They appropriately wish me “Merry Christmas” and I return a “Happy Holiday”; also using that term for those I have no idea what or if they have a religious preference. I’m sure by now you are tired of my lengthy comments; I seem to be hyper after a night of total frustration, anger, deep grief and very little sleep thanks to Herr Trump.
Or we could work to make it better
Nancy,
“Marv, I must admit that I don’t have very much knowledge at all about Hitler’s rise to power. I am only vaguely aware of his atrocities after he took control.”
I think you might have hit on something that is very crucial.
A few weeks after I returned to Jacksonville in the fall of 1991, I attended a traveling exhibit dedicated to Anne Frank, the German-Jewish teenager who went into hiding from the Nazis. The exhibit was for the most part about the atrocities. While walking around the exhibit, a young woman approached me and asked, “How could all of this happened?” I stopped and we, subsequently, had a long talk about the Nazis rise to power. It really helped her understand why it all happened.
Both the Christians and the Jews have had good reason not to explore that early era since both groups played into the problem. Europeans learned about the early period first hand. We didn’t. Consequently, we are extremely ignorant in the U.S. as to how it all came about.
Unfortunately, as a people, we have, for the most part, no IMMUNITY against the Hitler virus. That’s one of the reasons we are in this present day nightmare.
JoAnn,
I know how you feel.
Sheila,
Thanks for putting into words what I’ve been feeling.
My sense of loss for my children has been profound.
It’s time to stop whining and start working. We need to take the Senate in 2018 and we need to come as close as possible in the House.
We will see soon enough if the people got what they thought they bargained for.
“This is a vote against the future and the future is going to happen anyway,”
~~Gloria Steinem
NPR November 9, 2016
Perhaps with the exception of post 9/11 and the Cuban Missile Crisis, I’ve never prayed so hard for our country.
More from Gloria Steinem on November 9, 2016:
NPR Interviewer : “So, is Donald Trump YOUR President?”
Gloria Steinem: (pause with dead air and finally) “No.”
Atta girl, Gloria!
We should not take this lying down. Four years will go by quickly, I hope. Vote with your voices and your feet. Stand up and be counted.
Remember that BAD officials are elected by GOOD citizens who don’t vote!
Marv…I never underestimated your thoughts. People said I was a pessimist when I was predicting that Clinton did not have this in the bag and I fear an authoritarian gov’t is in our midst. I recall Steven Schmidt stating his concerns and said that Fascism did not rise because it was strong but because democracy had become weak. The parties have either presented in perception or in fact that democracy and the institutions are weak for decades. At least that is what I have gathered from observations and from listening to so many….this perception has been aided by our infotainment media that did not do their jobs. I thought it was hypocritical to watch them last night looking in disbelief that Trump was winning…he snookered them and they happily went along with his program and they were voicing disbelief? I had to turn them off…if I want TV news maybe I should watch the BBC.
The democracy experiment has failed. It takes effort and engagement as well as compromising with others who have different ideologies. Too much work. Let’s elect a fascist.
Gail,
“Let’s elect a fascist”
You already did.
Marv; YOU ROCK!
Nancy! If you haven’t seen “stupid, brainwashed, fool” many times in this blog, you have not been paying attention. I further submit that Tea party congressional representatives are no more or less immature petulant children than any other faction. Those of you that think Mitch McConnell is the founder of obstructionism have forgotten the “warm welcome” that Bush43 received. The reason that Reagan and Clinton succeeded where Obama and Bush43 did not is not the absence of Tea party, it was a more effective leadership mobilizing the public to demand such changes.
Ken,
This isn’t 1980 or 1992. I must admit, however, you’re a loyal, stout defender of the “crumbling” status quo.
So, Marv, I want to live in your block! Think I missed doing so when I lived in Dallas for 23 years. Since I read and considered what you have said over the last periods of time, I wasn’t too surprised that Donald J. Trump was elected….think this saved HRC’s life, if from nothing else the stress of being attacked for everything for four years.
Hope all of us can find a way to still have our voices heard, even if not acted upon, in the coming times. And not with the anger which has been evoked by DJT and others of the right. That just blocks our ability to consider deeply and communicate wisely.
Joining all of you in sadness, but hope we are not out of the game just yet, and don’t believe we are.
Barb G,
I no longer live in Dallas. I was there for over 25 years. I’m now back in my hometown of Jacksonville.
Barb G,
We probably can’t live on the same block. But we can communicate. My E-mail address is gmremark@yahoo.com.
Trump is not a king. He’s an evil clown, and the Free And The Brave will depose him by any means.
If you wallow in despair, you’re part of the problem.