Older readers may recall a quiz show that built to a finale in which the prize was $64,000. During the time the show was popular, when a difficult question would come up in conversation, someone was likely to say “Well, that’s the 64,000 dollar question!”
I thought of that when I read the results of several recent polls showing a majority of Americans disapproving of Donald Trump–with 46% disapproving strongly. (Obama’s “strong disapproval” never approached that number.)
Pew, of course, is the gold standard of polling. Daily Kos recently reproduced Pew’s poll, and its demographic breakout of approvals/disapprovals; the breakout prompts me to ask that $64,000 question:
Now it’s clear that there’s a dramatic racial divide in our nation’s politics, but there’s a dramatic difference among whites based on whether they have a college degree or not:
APPROVE DISAPPROVE
WHITE 51 48
BLACK 12 80
HISPANIC 25 72
WHITE, COLLEGE 38 61
WHITE, NO-COLLEGE 57 41
And that white, non-college-educated cohort is Trump’s firewall. He’ll bleed support among all those other groups, but there’s relatively not much room to drop. So if he’s going to end up in the low 30s or even high 20s, very possibly within six months, it’ll be because non-college whites start abandoning him. And if Trump loses those guys, there’s nothing else propping up the GOP. And 2018 will be a political bloodbath.
The question is obvious: What will it take to erode Trump’s support among the non-college-educated whites who still support him? What is it that they see that appeals to them? The easy answer–which may or may not be the correct answer–is that he has given them someone to blame for their discontents, “others” who can be held responsible for whatever economic or social injustices they experience. African-Americans, Mexicans, Jews, immigrants, elitists….
If that is, in fact, the basis of their approval, we may wait a long time for them to realize that his policies will deepen, rather than ameliorate, their distress. If there is one thing Trump is good at, it is blaming others for his own missteps and deficits; if the economic condition of those voters declines (as it is likely to do, given the policies that he and his cabinet choices embrace–policies that will benefit the well-off at the expense of the working poor), he will blame Congress for failing to pay billions for his wall, or the courts for failing to keep “those people” out, or the media for actually reporting what he says and does.
There’s an old saying to the effect that people cannot reason themselves out of positions they didn’t reason themselves into in the first place. There was no coherent, logical, reality-based argument for supporting Trump, and overwhelming evidence that he was monumentally unfit for the Oval Office. What will it take to weaken Trump’s support among those who voted for him because they hated Hillary,or would never vote for a woman, or because they thought wealth implied competence, or because they resented having had a black President, or because they always voted for the Republican?
How long will they continue to shrug off the mounting evidence of corruption and dangerous ineptitude as “fake news”? Will they convince themselves that the Russians are really nice guys, and Trump’s cozy relationship with Putin is no big deal? How embarrassing will his behavior have to get in order for them to recognize his mental instability?
What, exactly, will it take?
Maybe when the cost of being entertained by this so called president gets too high.
The non-educated whites that I live amongst are much less vocal about their support of trump in the past couple weeks.
However, they are not yet able to acknowledge that their vote for him was wrong. They still listen to the white supremacist radio talk shows and watch fox and breitbart. Those angry white info sources are still succeeding at keeping their followers angry. It will still take some time for them to actually realize that they eere bamboozled and then people like me will forever hold them responsible for the damage they have taken part in causing – to our environment, the wildlife, our freedom, public education, etc. etc.
What will it take? That is the $64,000 question.
All it will take is time.
Maybe when he mobilizes the nation guard ? and maybe not
We are being held hostage to Trump’s ever expanding ego; his inexplicable throngs of supporters are victims of Stockholm syndrome, believing he is their only salvation. But…salvation from what…or salvation from who? Can the hatred of one Black man, President Obama, actually run so deep they will aid Trump in his destruction of America and our way of life, warts and all, which has never seen the likes of the past four WEEKS? Those suffering from Stockholm Syndrome have no idea they will be lined up and in Trump’s cross hairs with the rest of us. Recent polls show President Obama has the highest approval rating of any president for decades while Trump has the lowest approval in the history of this country. And yet the rush to his support and cheer his inane – and at times insane – claims, continues unabated.
On MSNBC there was a film clip asking Republican and Democratic members of Congress their views of his Florida press conference/2020 re-election campaign kick-off rally. They claimed they were in meetings and too busy to watch. The MSNBC Republican commenter stated he didn’t believe any of them and stated, “…they are fibbing..” His word, “fibbing”, just short of Trump’s accusations that everyone else is lying and only he speaks the truth.
At this time, in this place, to shrug off the Russian spy submarine 30 miles off of the coast of Connecticut, scoping out the U.S. Navy base at New London where the U.S. has 15 nuclear subs sitting, is testament to the Trump/Putin?Russia connection. Despite the truthful claim that this is “normal procedure” and that “all countries do it”; this is NOT a normal time in U.S. history or our diplomatic relations around the world and we have an abnormal man in the White House with unqualified, inexperienced appointees running this country.
Why has their been no mention of the firing locally of all undocumented workers at CVS – I KNOW THIS FOR A FACT DUE TO A PERSONAL CONNECTION TO ONE OF THOSE FIRED WORKERS. Why were the bomb threats at Walmart stores on the south side of Indianapolis on Friday barely mentioned in the news? Why, as Theresa Bowers has commented, are we not seeing Hispanics on our streets and in our business places? They are in hiding is the only answer.
Trump’s threats to federalize the National Guard to do the “roundup” ICE he deems unable to do, denied by Sean Spicer, and reported in USA Today as never being seriously considered. is another of his wild-assed threats he states is “keeping his campaign promises”.
Sheila ended her blog with the question; “What, exactly, will it take?”
It is going to take blood in our streets, throughout our neighborhoods, cities and towns. The Republicans have armed private citizens under the guise of protecting their 2nd Amendment rights, with better weaponry than our police forces and much of our military. And as hostages to Trump’s ego, we will lose many battles before the end of this internal war. Unless our foreign enemies will use Trump’s suggested solution to all problems and “nuke us”.
Nancy is correct when she points out that it is the cheerleaders on the sidelines that will keep the Trump train running. Rush, Breitbart, Info Wars and on and on. Trump will accelerate his own downfall just by being Trump; it’s the cheerleaders that we need to be concerned with. They will keep resuscitating his political life with their propaganda.
Excuse me. I’m offended. I’m non-college educated & white & 69 & retired after working 40 yrs. So far in my life, the people I meet don’t even take that into consideration. They still find me likable & interesting. They still consider me very well educated. Are you an elitist? Perhaps we non-educated white people finally found someone who truly puts our Country first, not just a few special interest social justice warriors. We can see the big picture beyond our own self interest. Without the freedoms of this Country, warts & all, I doubt you would have a platform for your interests. I’m learning that those of you with like minds aren’t tolerable of those who have a different view on life. And, by the way, why are you still trying to find someone other than Hillary Clinton to blame for her loss.
Here’s another $64.000 question. Are Susan Collins and John McCain the only Republican office holders who have any principles at all? Collins voted against both Betsy DeVos and Scott Pruitt. McCain has spoken out against 45’s agenda at a world forum.
And another. How will the miner in the hard hat at 45’s signing ceremony feel about deregulation when the sludge from the mines poisons his family’s drinking water?
And another. I have long maintained that the Republicans are too crooked to rule and the Democrats too stupid. Will the Democrats prove me right again by not engaging the people in this vast new protest movement and creating a better vision of the future?
“What will it take?” IMO it will have to come from Trump’s followers themselves. They will have to come to a realization that they have been duped… lied to. Reasoning with them will not do it, because reasoning is not how they arrived at their support. Their support comes out of the most base of emotions: fear, anger, greed, hatred.
How to help Trump supporters get to a point of calm reflection? One might try some sincere sympathy using phrases like, “I can’t believe he keeps harping on the election numbers.” “He’s always yelling at people.” “Gee, this isn’t going the way I thought it would.” “I hoped that we would pull together by now. We seem to be more divided than ever.” Then drop it. One need not go on and argue or try to “reason”. Just sincerely point out the obvious, and let the Trump supporter come to a reasoned point of view for himself. Even then, I would caution to only reaffirm what they are expressing, not with “I told you so”, but with “Yeah, I think so too.”
Trump supporters are not the enemy… they are our fellow citizens, and we are all in this boat together.
And that comment by Barbara Hamilton is the reason that “noneducated” whites are passionate about Trump. “puts our Country first” is difficult, yet not that difficult to decipher. Clearly Barbara is intelligent, diligent, and angry. And sticking to her story, her belief system. Though nothing in the posts mentioned Hillary, she says it’s an attempt to blame others for her loss. Sticking with the anger and contempt and continuing to whole-heartedly believe the smear campaign about Hillary, even in the face of facts of Russian complcity. The loss of jobs, loss of income, decline life style coupled with the huge fear of different skin color, other faiths, fear and trauma of the shattering of the major assumptions about how the world should operate, predicts this “hear not, see not” phenomenon. It will only be when the wheels of change continue to line the pockets of the very rich, goods gets more costly, pollution increases, health declines, health costs increase, sons and daughters are conscripted and die in an unjust war (because war means profiteering) will the writing on the wall become clearer. Maybe, and then again, maybe not.
Hillary didn’t lose. She won in a landslide popular vote. Trump was “elected” by a geographical fluke. When you add the millions of votes to Hillary’s some 2,865,000 that were cast against Trump in favor of Third Party candidates it is clear that a super majority is being ruled by a small minority, that the big majority doesn’t agree with what he says he is going to do, and that his talk of his big win is 100 percent delusion which would qualify him for the funny farm in another time and place.
Trump has had considerable success in exploiting class and other differences as suggested by the contribution of Ms. Hamilton today, to whom I address the following: My father dropped out of school in the seventh grade to go to work as a child laborer in the coal mines; my mother dropped out of school in her sophomore year. Their three boys all have at least one college degree, but so what, Ms. Hamilton? We are talking not about ourselves but how we are to be governed, and whatever our political stripes or hurt feelings, this guy Trump by any reasonable standard is a disaster. If you disagree, fine; this is a democracy and the right to vote and level of education are immaterial. My father and mother were not college graduates, either, but were valuable and contributing members of society, as I am sure you are, but to reiterate, this is not about your or my being herded into some Pew statistic and marginalized as a result; it’s about who and what we want those who represent us to do and act like in their official capacities and I think citizens should vote on grounds of anticipated results rather than resentment of one’s status. I don’t remember seeing your contribution to this blog before, but welcome! We need to have varying points of view set forth in our continuing discusion of our fate.
Barbara, be proud not offended. You are an instance in a stratified statistical sampling of the population and not having attended college does not mean, as an individual, that you are uneducated. Two of the most educated people I know never went to college (and I’m married to one of them). I also know of many people who went to college and couldn’t reason their way out of a wet paper bag or write a grammatically correct sentence (and those colleges should lose their accredidation).
I believe you are correct in that the Dems have traditionally (for 20-25 yrs) not paid particular attention to the policies that hollowed out the American middle class, and they tied their political fate to a handful of divisive social issues. Hillary Clinton’s defeat had more to do with the legacy of her husband’s corporatist/globalist economic policies – which she fully embraced and, coupled with her stiff public persona, made her an uncompelling candidate.
Disaffected American voters on the left and the right (and not necessarilly the extemes) reject statist politicians from the two major parties and want a government that embraces policies that will benefit people who work for a living and especially those in the middle 3/5 of the income spectrum. Unfortunately, the man who convinced roughly 59 million voters in just the right combination of states is not creating that kind of government because he is a fraud, a megamaniacal demagogue, and not a leader. He has proven that in 30 short days with the selection of his cabinet, his executive orders, ALL of which were intended as nothing more than political stunts, and worst of all, having done nothing to bring the country together In fact the divisions are wider than ever. We aren’t getting a do-over. We can only hope that our Constitution works and the separation of powers prevails over this lurch towards facist totalitarianism. Peace.
The short-fingered vulgarian’s ardent supporters will keep drinking the Kool-Aid as long as it’s put in front of them. When he’s impeached or forced to resign, he’ll be a martyr. The problem then is that his supporters won’t turn against the party and sweep them out, they’ll merely turn against the incumbents in the primaries. The GOP will keep its death grip on power as long as they do nothing to improve the lives of their voters and, with the help of their de facto propaganda agencies, can successfully get them to blame someone else.
Well said, Theresa. “Trump supporters are not the enemy…they are our fellow citizens, and we are all in this boat together.” I was rather disheartened when Nancy earlier said, “It will still take some time for them to actually realize that they were bamboozled and then people like me will forever hold them responsible for the damage they have taken part in causing – to our environment, the wildlife, our freedom, public education, etc. etc.” Forever hold them responsible. That is very polarizing which is just exactly what Trump and his cohorts need to establish a stronger foothold–polarization–a feeling of us versus them. We cannot hold our fellow citizens responsible. We must weaken the polarization that is happening. It won’t be easy, but if we don’t find ways to depolarize, I am fearful that what we are seeing will get much uglier.
Well said, Barbara. I would ask all on this blog, “Haven’t you ever been bamboozled?”
Also, for those hopeful for a Trump impeachment and conviction or resignation might as well anticipate monkees flying out of their butts. I might suggest reading article 4 of the 25th amendment to the US constitution, a far more probable event than either of the aforementioned, however, not necessarily a better outcome.
Grouping Trump voters in a traditional polling classification as “white, non-college-educated cohort” misses a key voter characteristic: that of some Trump voters being “desperate.”
For examples of this point, see PBS Frontline published stories (links below) of three groups of Trump voters who believed the candidate’s promises of relief.
COAL:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/betting-on-trump-coal/
WATER:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/betting-on-trump-water/
JOBS:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/betting-on-trump-jobs/
Seriously, What is it going to take for these people to see the IDIOT they elected?
Did any of these people watch that press conference last week? My Goodness, that was a HOT MESS of epic proportions! He cannot finish a thought or even a complete sentence! I never watched any of his “Rallies” because I have better things to do but that press conference was downright jaw dropping. Hating on the press? Ordering that reporter to sit down and shut up? Asking the other reporter to set up a meeting with CBC because they could have been friends? When he got fact checked, he just said, these were the numbers I was given…COME ON Supporters, he’s a fraud!
Muslim ban? Executive Orders numbering so high in the first month? 3 weekends off to FL and he complained about #44 golfing too much?
Hating on the government? He is the government! What is it going to take for these people to come to their senses? He was a man baby up there complaining about his bad press. WTF? Grow UP already.
Why is he campaigning for 2020 already? Did any of you go to that web site that those ‘supporters’ were advertising behind him? BlacksforTrump2020dotcom is another hot mess of infowars type of web sites. I guess they weren’t vetted either despite being right behind #45 on live tv.
It is interesting to me that Barbara Hamilton seems offended by the question. These are just statistics presented. Although more people in all the demographics voted for Trump, it is less educated whites who REMAIN his strongest supporters. If these are the facts, why take offense? Are you offended because you think Trump is doing a good job as president? I think the $64,000 question should be reframed. How can we get a Republican Congress to create good jobs, protect the environment, provide Americans the same health care & pension plans Congress enjoys? If they could do THAT job instead of helping corporations & rich people get richer, there would be little support for the race baiting & conspiracy theories. Too many average people would be happy.
My battleground is typically climate change but I think that there are similar explanations for political and scientific dysfunction.
Dunning Kruger studies have shown that the way we are wired, those with more knowledge on a topic are less confident about the completeness of their knowledge than those who know little.
Trump voters are little Trumps. They know not what they do but they build little facts into complete explanations. Build a wall! Immigrants are terrorists! Science is a conspiracy! Only I can keep you safe! Obamacare is driving up medical costs!
Not only do we have big Trump in the Whitehouse and little Trumps voting for him but we also have a Congress run by them.
This infestation of Trumps has a history the most visible father being Rush Limbaugh.
They may be easily led by simple slogans but they are blind in their loyalty because what they do know is the entire explanation.
In other words they are extremists.
What will it take for Trump’s supporters to abandon him? There are, perhaps, a few scenarios, under which it might happen. But assuming that he doesn’t totally go off the rails — I know that is a relative thing given his actions and performance throughout his campaign and presidency so far — I believe that they won’t abandon him no matter whether he can actually produce on the promises he made to them.
By actually produce, I mean can he actually bring back the coal miners jobs. Can he bring back all those manufacturing jobs, with the old benefits and compensation. Of course, he and his fellow traveler Republicans can’t and won’t be able to do that on a scale to make any meaningful difference for those so-called “displaced workers,” non-skilled workers. One example, unless and until coal becomes cheaper than fracked natural gas, the major electric generating utilities — even with the attempts to derail the growth in solar and wind energy — are going to continue to switch to cleaner, cheaper gas.
I think it’s true that at some point the Trump supporter coal miners will see that their old jobs are never going to come back (in fact, if there are still real facts — from interviews after the election many of the former coal miners already know their jobs are gone for good, but they like that Trump was seemingly paying attention to them).
But — again the but — who will they blame for that? My guess is it won’t be Trump or his fellow travelers. It will be the Democrats, the liberals, the stupid, ignorant judges who will be to blame. Anybody but Trump, which of course is what he will push to the max.
We’re a selfish lot. We like to feel safe and have a job both of which Trump promised, neither of which bad government can deliver.
Barbara Hamilton, exactly what “Big Picture” Do you envision? Does your Social Security mean nothing to you? How about your Medicare? My SS is so far below the poverty level, if it fell out of Trump’s pocket as he pulled out the keys to his yacht, he’d neither notice it nor care. My SS is everything I’ve got. If they end that, they’ve effectively tossed me out on the street. And medicare? Yes, I need that too. For far too many years while I worked, I paid for insurance I couldn’t use. The deductibles were too high. The money came out of my earnings every paycheck for both SS & FICA. I paid for it. So now that I can finally take care of myself, it’s being ripped out from under me. While that little prick with his smug smile (Lyin’ Ryan) take all the money collected from you, from me, & from all Americans.
We see clearly where the us is headed under this regime. Our vision is not clouded. The future of this country stands in the balance. And as long as Orange man is allowed to run roughshod over the rights of Americans, we won’t see an inch of progress or improvement.
I hope you’re rich! You’re going to need it!
“It is going to take blood in our streets, throughout our neighborhoods, cities and towns. The Republicans have armed private citizens under the guise of protecting their 2nd Amendment rights, with better weaponry than our police forces and much of our military.”
Really?
I hope that you typing this bilge made you feel better as opposed to you actually believing it. It is asinine on many levels.
Or is anarchy a thing that you support, or cheer on, if you are infirm, having someone else bleed to support your change of policy?
Rasmussen poll has Drumpf approval rating at 55%. All others are irrelevant to Drumpf supporters. But, like everything else in wingnut La La Land, the goal posts get moved frequently. If Rasmussen support drops into the upper 30% range where most polls are, wingnuts would find some other positive ranking for Drumpf.
In case no one has noticed, in his last 2 sojourns into the public, Drumpf has misstated he recently signed an order to begin construction of Keystone XL (KXL) and Dakota Access Pipeline (DAPL). Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but DAPL has finished construction except for the short piece that has Native Americans up in revolt. The place where it runs under Lake Oahe and endangers the Reservation ‘s drinking water.
Tell me Barb, what is the big picture that you can see that the rest of us can’t see? Sheila speaks in specifics whereas Trumkins always speak in big picture generalities.
Bemused, I have copied and pasted my paragraph above the one you copied and pasted – out of context. “Trump’s threats to federalize the National Guard to do the “roundup” ICE he deems unable to do, denied by Sean Spicer, and reported in USA Today as never being seriously considered. is another of his wild-assed threats he states is “keeping his campaign promises”.”
Exactly what do YOU think the millions of armed public citizens; armed thanks to those lax or no gun laws allowing anyone to open carry military style weapons, rifles, shotguns and handguns, will do when Trump’s federal troops show up? And; unless someone steps in very soon, Trump will order federal troops somewhere in this country based on his “alternative facts”. His initial threat was to send the feds into Chicago to handle their local crime problem; will they all just give up, put their hands against the wall and spread their legs? Anarchy is what Trump has founded his administration on; it was the foundation of his campaign and day-by-day he is removing regulations, laws and rules put in place to protect the American public from the lawlessness of the 1% who own Trump, his administration and the GOP.
Greetings Patricia. Very good answer. to Barb and all the others who took care of themselves and see no reason to look out for others. Probably a good church christian like little mikee
Joann,
You…DO realize that these “millions of armed citizens” have been legally vetted to arm themselves, yes? Regardless of whether you agree with this or not, that is a truth. These members of our community voted Trump in to office! They are tired of living in crime-infested sewers and tired of the illegality that has been countenanced by our society vis a vis illegal immigration. If President Trump “orders in his federal troops” as you posit, the last thing on their agenda would be those armed citizens who live their life in a lawful manner. Your fear is that everyone will live in a totalitarian system where no one’s right would be safe. Show me where this is a possibility?? Where EVERYONE, law abiding or not has to fear a negation of 4th amendment, 1st amendment, 8th amendment, 6th amendment rights?
You cannot. But I’ll wait to see if you can come up with something.
Ooops; my bad! I didn’t realize from your earlier brief post that I was communicating with a staunch Republican Donald Trump supporter and voter.
Yes; I am well aware that those millions of armed people are legally armed, I am well aware of that fact through many conversations with my Uncle Don of Don’s Guns…who lobbied for years for background checks on the sale of all long guns. The armed citizens are not going to ask if they are on Trump’s agenda when they see armed troops coming down their streets or through their doors and the armed troops aren’t going to ask for their ID. The immigrants Trump attempted, illegally, to prevent from entering this country were previously vetted for 18 -24 months, had full ID, green cards and United States government permission to deboard all planes on American soil. Their fares were paid by family, friends, churches and businesses; they had homes to go to and many had jobs waiting. The $64,000 question here is…why did Trump believe he could circumnavigate laws and ignore government documentation because he didn’t like the country they came from? I believe that falls under the heading of the word “anarchy” you used. Other countries are beginning to question people from this country crossing their borders…due to Trump’s mentally unbalanced, yet fully supported by the GOP, personal likes and dislikes.
IV Amendment; the immigrants were granted temporary legal immigrant status but were not served with warrants prior to illegal “search and seizure”, nor were they arrested with would have allowed them to protest their treatment. Belongings were removed from their possession, families were separated, many including children were handcuffed, denied food and water for many hours.
Ist Amendment; their freedom of speech was ignored as well as the freedom of speech by their legal advisers, legal government documents were ignored and local police authority barred their way. They were from Muslim countries so their freedom of religion was denied and they were denied other rights afforded them with their documentation, due to their religion. As Trump stated, special courtesies would be given to Christians.
VI Amendment; they had committed NO CRIME so there was no requirement for them individually to have a trial, fair and speedy or in any other form.
VIII Amendment; the above applies here, too.
Your awareness of the Amendments is typical of all Republicans today; especially those who support Trump and his White Nationalist appointees.
Great blog today, Sheila!
act@credoaction[dot]com to get in on the conference call from Sen. Elizabeth Warren on Tuesday night, Feb. 21, 9:00 Eastern (8:00 Central). Also check in with Kirsten Gillebrand. There really are senators out there fighting for everyone’s interests, not just those of the 1%.
Good comments today, including some new folks: Nancy, Teresa, Peggy, Theresa, Delma, Gerald, P.J., Theresa @ 9:40a: Yes, we have all been bamboozled and we felt so foolish and angry, ALG, Pete @ 11:47a: Powerful first paragraph, Patricia: Love the image of your SS pittance falling out of DT’s pocket as he reached for the keys to [one of] his yachts.
Marv,
If you’re out there somewhere, we miss you! Hurry and get back in here. You know this very dangerous thing and where it can lead / is leading.
“From the moment I stepped into this race, I made it clear that the top two priorities of the next DNC chair must be to strengthen state parties and reform the DNC,” said Ray Buckley New Hampshire party chair in a press statement announcing the endorsement of Rep. Keith Ellison (D-Minn.).
There is protest and resistance in the air, just as there was during the Occupy Demonstrations. The Democratic Establishment did their level best to ignore the seething anger that Occupy revealed was out there. Instead what we received was Wall Street Bailouts and Too Big to Fail, Too Big to Jail.
As a Bernie Bot I am still angry that the DNC and Super Delegates put their collective figures on the scale in favor of the Corporate Democratic Candidate. The Democratic Party Corporate Establishment does not want big change. Why would they. They are in the pocket of Wall Street. The selection of the failed retread Nancy Pelosi says it all.
It is history that in 1992:
The US House Democrats 258, Republicans 176, Independent 1.
The US Senate Democrats 57, Republicans 43.
2016:
The US House Democrats 194, Republicans 241
The US Senate Democrats 46, Republicans 52, Independents 2
The Democrats are going to need a sincere, progressive and serious message, to convince people to Vote for them.
Louie; isn’t Bernie supporting Ellison as DNC Chair? And didn’t Liz also support him, or has my memory bank suffered great losses trying to keep up with and understand what Trump is up to each day? If my memory hasn’t failed me; I trust Bernie and Liz to believe Keith Ellison is the change the DNC needs to make needed reform and become stronger.
There is no denying that change is needed within the party if we are to succeed in upcoming elections before 2020.
JoAnn – In the final stretch, Ellison, who has the backing of Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) and Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.) among other prominent lawmakers, has racked up a number of notable endorsements. Ellison, who faces off against his competitors during a CNN-hosted debate on Wednesday, has said as chair he would implement a “3,143 county strategy” to “rebuild the party from the grassroots up.”
http://www.commondreams.org/news/2017/02/19/onetime-rival-endorses-ellison-dnc-chair
I’m going to retract my statement that the trump voters and supporters were “bamboozled”. Instead, I will state that they willfully voted for a billionaire who made it very clear to most people in our country that he had absolutely NO intention of helping anyone but himself. He was always in the race for himself and has proven that to be even more true in the oast four weeks. Just look at who he chose as his closest advisors. We actually have President Bannon and a cabal of billionaires who only care about eliminating any regulations that have made it a little difficult for them to increase their wealth.
And, YES, I will hold the trump voters and supporters accountable for the damage they are enabling him and his cabal to force onto all of us.
JoAnn and Louis – do either of you know if South Bend’s mayor is still being considered? I haven’t heard anything lately about the candidates for DNC chair.
Bemused: There is so much wrong with your posts, it’s hard to know where to begin or end!
First, who is it that “vetted” all these “armed citizens?” And what exactly did that “vetting”consist of? Oh, if the gun was bought legally through a gun dealer, the dealer supposedly checks to see if the buyer is a prohibited user, i.e., in most cases a felon. But anyone can totally avoid even this minimal “vetting” by attending any weekend gun show and buying a gun in the parking lot no questions asked. And people with serious documented mental issues can now legally buy guns again thanks to Bannon/Trump. And, Oh Yes, people on the terrorist “no-fly” list can also buy guns legally too. Not even to mention the rampant Black Market in guns of all sorts. (And before the accusations of being anti-gun ownership are hurled: No Bemused, I’m not anti-gun ownership; just would like to see a little common sense used.)
Second, do you really think that it’s only the Trump supporters who are armed to the teeth in this Country? Think you’d be sadly mistaken about that one.
Third, if we ever reach the point, and I certainly hope we never do, that the National Guard is martialed out by Bannon/Trump to keep “peace” on streets of our cities or to prevent peaceful protests, most of the Constitutional rights you list won’t be available to anyone. Rights are only “rights” when everyone, law abiding or not, can use them when and if needed. Otherwise, they really aren’t “rights” at all, are they?
As for “totalitarianism.” The use of the National Guard on civilians is the exact scenario under which Bannon/Trump could indeed attempt to institute a totalitarian, military state in the U.S. It’s happened before. See: Nazi Germany. (While on the subject, you might want to read up on the totalitarian beliefs of Trump’s “Svengali” Steve Bannon, and his vows to destroy the U.S. government).
Fourth, “living in crime-infested sewers … .”
Who knew that Trump voters were living in not only “sewers,” but “crime-infested” ones at that? You have my sincerest sympathy if that describes your present living conditions. Maybe Trump’s “infrastructure” plan can fix up some of those sewers.
Sarcasm aside and not to condone the commission of any violent crimes, you do know Bemused that almost all forms of violent crime in this Country have been on a steadily downward trend since the 1990’s? That the current U.S. violent crime rate is well over half lower than in the early 1990’s? Oh wait, those are actual measureable facts that can be verified so they don’t count.
Last, “the illegality that has been countenanced by our society vis a vis illegal immigration.”
So let’s talk about “countenance[ing]” illegality. Granted there are illegal immigrants in this Country who have committed violent crimes — most often connected to the Cartels and drug smuggling, which, of course, wouldn’t exist if millions of legal U.S. citizens didn’t buy their drugs making it highly profitable to smuggle them into this Country. I don’t, and I don’t think any reasonable person would disagree that those violent illegal immigrants, who have committed serious felonies, should be found and deported as quickly as possible. In fact, Obama’s administration, which deported more illegal aliens than any previous administration, policy was to do and was doing just that.
So that leaves the rest of the estimated nearly 10 to 11 million illegal immigrants in this Country who have not committed any violent crimes or any types of crimes at all other than having entered the Country illegally.
Yes, Yes, Yes Bemused. Entering the Country illegally is a crime. As is overstaying your visa, which is how a large number of illegals enter and remain in this Country. But do you really believe that simply being in this Country illegally is the same and should be treated the same as illegals who commit violent crimes or drug smuggling? (OK, I suspect you do.)
It’s a problem that they’re here illegally, and it should be dealt with. Even many people who are opposed to rounding up and deporting 10-11 million men, women and children don’t believe that those here illegally should be granted total amnesty. That there must be some type of penalties or punishment imposed to account for their having violated the law by entering illegally.
But that is a problem that can be rationally and reasonably dealt with short of hiring thousands of new ICE or BP agents or calling out the National Guard to round up 10-11 million people, building 100’s of new detention prisons to hold them, and then deporting millions of people who are leading otherwise law-abiding productive lives, working everyday, most paying taxes just like you do (But No, they can’t get Medicaid or Society Security), hoping for a better life for themselves and their families. Not to mention the fact that many of their children are legal U.S. citizens or were brought here as young children when they had no say in the matter and have never lived anywhere else. Whatever happened to the old “Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone?”
Louie; thanks so much for that post.
Nancy; who among us wants to admit that we have all been “bamboozled” or admit people voted for this man because they supported every ugly word and racist, bigoted threat he made during his campaign. How could we possibly imagine, let alone believe he would become the president. I cannot say “win the presidency” because he did NOT win.
On the other hand; neither do we want to admit we were “bamboozled” by our own Director of the DNC, the Director of the FBI or that the Electoral College would AGAIN turn on Americans to put a more dangerous duo than Bush and Cheney in the White House. There is no way any thinking person could foresee what we are dealing with every day and that no one is stepping forward to stop this mad man’s actions due to fear of his power over their lives. We wake each day to a nightmare and we must remember to “pay close attention to that man behind the curtain” because he is the Wizard of Evil.
David F; powerful statement on all counts. Thank you for knowing how vital it is to all for us to read those words today; for reminding us of what we need to fight for and why we must continue to fight what is happening.
I’m curious. Is this just for people from Indiana, except for Gerald? I read it daily and occasionally respond. There are always good comments but mine don’t usually get responses. Sorry. It feels strange. Now, one comment. Manitoba will allow any undocumented immigrants in. They help people find homes, jobs, and learn the English language. You can google Manitoba and immigrants to learnote. And maybe you can help me be a better communicator.
Marge; not for, about or from only Indiana so stick with us. Some from other states and a couple out of country; Sheila’s blogs carry some local and state but much national, federal and at times foreign issues which effect all of us. Not all of us get responded to and some of us say too much, too often…mea culpa.
Marge, most of us don’t get responses to our posts. Please know that your posts are read and appreciated, even if no one responds.
Marge – I haven’t lived in Indiana since 1970 but have four kids who live there with their progeny. You are from Texas and we need your input from that right wing environment and their medieval/corporate/greed views of things. You can be our reporter. Hang around.
It is hard to admit when we are wrong, especially when we were just so sure we were right. I am sad because it doesn’t matter now. I am sad because this really is the worst of times. We have become a fragile, divided country and everyone is still talking about who won and who lost. We all lost.
Hi Marge, greetings from Switzerland and Mary Marlow – indeed we all lost.
#Resist!
Hey Marge
Former life-long Hooiser now living in it’s twin Red State Arizona. Ironically, more and more, it appears that AZ Senator John McClain maybe one of the few “Republicans” to at least have the courage to even criticize the Fake President.
BTW: Thanks JoAnn. Obviously Bemused pushed a few of my buttons, which was probably the intent of his post here in the first place.
I am a Democrat. I voted for Hillary Clinton. I liked Hillary Clinton. If she were running for office right now, I’d vote for her. Many of my friends are Republicans. For the most part, they are not fans of Fake President Donald Trump. They’re quite aware he has no sense of humor; no sense of wit. But that didn’t keep them from voting for him.
They shared one definite cause. They absolutely hated Hillary Clinton. All of them. Try as I might, I could not persuade them to give me good reasons (or any kind of reasons) for their hatred of Hillary.
In my opinion, which is not very often valuable, the National Democratic Party should concentrate on running a candidate who is extremely personable, charming and witty. It worked for Fake President Trump and look what a nincompoop he is.