Yesterday, Emmis Communication joined Freedom Indiana, the growing coalition opposed to HJR 6, the proposal to constitutionalize Indiana’s ban on same sex marriage and civil unions.
Also yesterday, a northern Indiana Tea Party group joined the homophobes agitating for passage of that constitutional amendment. Because Tea Party folks are all about limited government.
Right.
Listen up, Tea Party people: limited government means limited. Not just low-tax, not just no pesky government interference when your business dumps toxic waste into the local river. Limited. As in “government doesn’t belong in my boardroom or my bedroom.” As in, “government doesn’t get to decide who or how I love, how many children I have, whether I use contraceptives, or even whether I carry a pregnancy to term. Government doesn’t get to dictate my religious beliefs or observances, doesn’t get to tell me what political positions to endorse, doesn’t get to prescribe my reading materials, and doesn’t get to choose the people with whom I associate.”
As George Bush Senior might say, read my lips: you are either genuinely for limited government or you aren’t. If you are truly a limited government advocate, you’re required to be at least moderately consistent. At the very least, you have to refrain from demanding that government impose your religious beliefs on your fellow citizens.
If you just want to “limit” government’s ability to tax you, you aren’t an advocate of limited government. You just don’t want to pay for the services government delivers.
You’re just one of those assholes who doesn’t want to pay his dues.
The GOP intrusion into limiting necessary or preferred medical care for women, who want women to pay more for health care coverage due to female body parts, have forgotten major medical care issues for men. Women do NOT have prostate glands but pay for coverage of diagnosis and treatment for men; women do NOT have a penis but pay for erectile dysfunction supplies for men. “Limited” government intrusion into medical care availability should also include limiting specialized treatment for men that women do not need. Let us not forget that men also have breast cancer; so if clinics providing diagnosis for breast cancer in women are going to be limited – let’s limit that same medical care for men. My taxes pay for many services I do not need and do not use; it is all part of the greater picture of government in this country. Sometimes it is a bitter pill we must swallow to maintain ALL services paid for with our taxes.
Expanding the legal definition of marriage and increasing the obligations of courts, corporations, agencies, persons to respect novel legal definitions and new statutory obligations is a profound growth of government.
No it’s not. It’s the right thing to do when discrimination is keeping people separated from the rest of us. That is exactly what outlawing gay marriage does to them. It separates them from us and therefore it needs to be fixed. How can you not see that American? How can you call yourself “american” when you favor discrimination in the LAND OF THE FREE?
Thanks Shiela. You correctly said these tea party folks are:
“You’re just one of those assholes who doesn’t want to pay his dues”
It might be more accurate to say:
“RACIST Assholes…..”
Their primary organizing principle is thier utter hatred of our president
The rest is Bull
@American:
Unless you can HONESTLY say that you have NOT been denied health care, access to spousal social security benefits or pension, a job, a home, basic respect, or kicked out your home, or a victim of a hate crime due to your identity then you need to stop being an Ahole and shut your mouth.
Heavens to Mergatroid; American’s comments remind me of an old Russian adage. “Do not stir s++t with stick, it will cause stink.”
“You’re just one of those assholes who doesn’t want to pay his dues.”
Apart from being strident ad hominem, this is a circular conclusory argument.
The response that so much of America has is that they aren’t “my dues.” We never wanted them. We never consented to them. They are imposed by force by ignorant people with bad ideas. It is immoral to pay them. We find them to be morally repugnant, and we will support anyone and any action that tears them down.
That which the left wants is utterly intolerable to most of the country.
American,
You are a minority. Your hate is vanishing as your kind die.
If you don’t like it, LEAVE. Get out. Never return. We don’t want you in our country.
And remember, there is no Tea Party. It’s the same Repub hatefest we’ve been trying to contain for decades, rebranded by the Koch Bros. and Dick Armey’s HateWorks outfit to distance the Repubs from the disastrous legacy of supporting Georgie Dubya for eight of the longest years of our lives.
The simpletons hang teabags from their stupid hats and suddenly they never heard of W, they never supported sinking billions into an illegal war, they never shifted all our money to the top 1%, they never even thought about deregulating the banks that nearly brought down the economy. No, they’re a totally new thing, no slime-ridden legacy of Nixon, Atwater, Reagan, Bush I, Gingrich, Bush II, Rove, Limbaugh, or McVeigh here!
And the media, the so-called “liberal media” owned and run by conservatives, bought this lie, and let them dominate the airwaves with their stupid dress-up outfits, claiming they were “all about jobs and taxes” even though all they’ve done after getting even the smallest fraction of power is to try – constantly – to regulate women’s reproductive rights and repeal a duly passed, SCOTUS-approved law favored by the majority of the people.
There is no Tea Party. There is only the same repugnant hateful racist sexist homophobic greedy stupid violent inhuman GOP base, dressed up in funny hats, waving signs about how much taxes they (often don’t) pay and “taking our country back” from the black man they feel must have stolen it because they believe everyone thinks like them and would never vote for One Of Those People.
There. Is. No. Tea. Party.
Cooksey, there are many personality traits that cause one to be shunned or attacked by the community, regardless of ideology. Such is the nature of primitive minds that need the comfort and security of a pack. Service to the group to secure membership in the group is the prevailing survival instinct. Why, look at my reception here. Were this site the world, the lot of you would have literally killed me. Literally. Dead. The hard left is famously lethal in disposing of dissenters, as leftism, woefully unattractive in practice, needs monolithic opinion to survive, so perpetually alluring is a competing governmental structure.
Your difficulty is that you have encountered social groups that have a prevailing pack mind that disapproves of your personality traits. Move to Manhattan, and change your social group. If you live in Indy, you’re no more than a half mile in any direction from prevailing social groups that are threatened by your personality traits.
Seriously, though, have you really given women a chance? If we need to jump-start things, there’s some awesome porn out there that can unlock those currently suppressed instincts. Stop by Brad’s Gold Club or a Tilted Kilt. I can guarantee you that if we got you in the right hands, she could convert you more powerfully than Saul towards Damascus. Let’s start small. There’s got to be something you like in women. Face, top, bottom, legs. Mmmm, mmmm. Just Google any feature you like in women, and surf the buffet. The rest might take care of itself. Once those instincts restart, if you’re uncertain about how to take it to the next step, sure, that can be a problem, but there are always folks around to help with that. Mainly, it’s getting up the nerve to ask the question. We can help with this part.
Trust me. Give me a steak, some lovely curves, guns and loud cars. Life’s good on the hetero side.
Damian, this is not, and will never be, a pro-homosexual country.
Further, none are. Men like women. Ever thus.
Deal with it.
Am I the only reader who wonders how American knows so much about porn clubs? i also wonder who is the “we” who can help others to take that next step into porn and can even give the names of the clubs and what they have to offer? Very intersting comments; giving us much to ponder about American and his friends on the “hetero side”. We have read many of his political views, now we learn about his personal habits and hobbies. Damian; you opened a can of worms here and the only response I can come up with is, “ewwwwww!”
This is why I consider myself a rational person.
I was born – I pay taxes – one day I will die.
However between born and die, I will strive to allow others
around me to live in peace and prosperity, as I would expect
other to allow me to live in peace and prosperity. I will Not
follow a course of action that would harm others, either
physically and mentally. I will not follow an attitude of “I’m
aright jack, screw everybody else and if I see anybody being
physically or verbally mistreated, I hope I have the “Balls” to
confront the aggressors on their behavior.
If a gay couple would like to wed, who am I to say no.
Amerrican, you’re a sad, miserable, hateful person. Either get help or, as the kids these days say, “get REKT”.
JoAnn, there is no such thing as a “porn club.” There’s porn, and there’s gentlemen’s clubs. You conflated a few concepts. How do I know so much about porn? I’m an American male. To visit one of our local chapters for further details, stop by your nearest frat house or auto shop.
Sheila – Thank you for reminding us of that grand old political divide in this country between those who want government in the board room but not the bedroom and those who prefer the reverse. Over the years, we have seen the “blue laws” fall by the wayside and the courts intervene to grant us basic rights to privacy in our bedrooms (at least so far).
We have also seen how getting government out of the board room completely led to spectacular S & L failures and then the most recent failures in the banking industry. (I suppose you know which side I tend to favor).
Everyone, please remember that when you feed trolls, you just increase the quantity of excrement. Thank you.
“[American] doth protest too much [about gays], methinks.” (Oh, Rand: That’s Hamlet, Act III, Scene II, William Shakespeare, circa 1600 CE)
I am going to move back to the issue of Sheila’s blog; some of us, including myself, got sidetracked and did a lot of venting – healthy for the most part – but still moved away from the issue at hand. Limited government seems to have different meaning to those in government doing the limiting and those whose lives are being limited. One faction of this government actually believes that their way is THE way and they are trying to save us from ourselves by limiting us from living freely. They don’t understand, or don’t agree with the reality, that we are capable of and wish to control our own lives, within the law of course, regarding who we love, our medical decisions, our ability to register to vote as well as who we choose to vote for. I have seen much history and many changes in this city, state and nation in my 76 years. One of those changes in the history of this country was allowing and encouraging, a biracial man and a women to vie for the honor of running for President. I am proud to have been part of this historical event and one who helped elect Barack Obama, an exceptional man who happens to be biracial, as President. I would have just as proudly voted for Hillary Clinton. Though many are still struggling with that reality; we have survived that historical event and moved beyond past limitations.
I hope now in my lifetime to be able to attend the weddings of my gay and/or lesbian friends, openly and legally anywhere in this city, state or country. The LGBT citizens in this country ask only for their human and civil rights to be honored; they do not ask nor do they expect us to understand or accept them as they were created by the same God who created all of us. Nor do they want or attempt to run our lives or make our decisions for us; they understand that this is our right. Let us now fight FOR their rights against the portion of this government who is limiting them from living freely and limiting those of us who want this ridiculous, bigoted, pseudo religious fighting to stop so that we can move on to resolve the real problems in this country.
Who knew I would come back to read such comedy today!
I’ll be honest, my opposition to same sex marriage bans is religious based. I see how the same arguement to define one sacrament, marriage, could define another sacrament, let’s say baptism. My understanding of this country is that no agent of government, regardless of how popular, can decide religious issues, only secular issues. I may be wrong but I will not let conservatives dictate my conscience.
Ladies and Gentlemen, a troll has passed by, asking to be fed, after talking nonsense, some of which is hateful or unproductive. It is delusion to believe that you can have a reasonable conversation with this sadness.
I wonder who employs him and how much they pay him. Just for kicks.
Gentlemen’s Clubs – you mean Titti Bars
For once I make a comment from the soul. (earlier)
Perhaps I should return to being “Spawn (in-law) of the Dark One”
I support the idea of Gay People having the Legal Right to be Married, or Civil Unions. I can understand the TEA Party wanting to rein in the Government =Federal-State and Local. As an example I totally oppose our huge tax expenditures building stadiums for the billionaire owners of Professional Sports Teams. I oppose the Corporate Welfare in the form of Direct and Indirect Tax Subsidies. I oppose the Crony-Capitalism that provides tax breaks, etc., to the poltically selected-connected and the expectation that the remainder of us pay our share, plus the share who receive the tax breaks.
I am angry about Corporations and Individuals who make their money in the US, and expect our Military to respond to threats and attacks, who also want a First World Infrastructure in USA, but evade taxes by moving their money “Off Shore.”
Maybe I missed it but the TEA Party seems very silent on Crony-Capitalism, and Corporate Welfare.
Good comments, Louis.
For all their love of limited government, The Tea Party folks are also silent on runaway police power in the U.S. and bloated spending on defense contractors.
For all their talk about removing nonsense and non-academic subjects from schools (such as model U.N. participation), the Tea Party folks love taxpayer-subsidized sports in schools, from the wee lads up to the Texas A&M vs. Alabama football game, played during prime time.
The Tea Party started with Ron Paul, and it was great for a few months, but it was soon co-opted by the Becks and the Palins and became something quite different.
My church (St. Luke’s United Methodist in Indpls.) is now doing a series of Sunday morning
sessions on homosexuality and the Bible (11:00 a.m. in the church parlor if you’re interested). It’s very well attended and welcomes and celebrates people of all sexual orientations.
Unfortunately the Bible has been used as a defense of slavery and subjugation of women’s legal rights and also takes a dim view of what are now accepted modern day practices such as eating pork and shrimp. Among other cultural taboos – Jews were not to associate with, let alone enter the home of or dine with Gentiles, but Jesus did so. Jesus went much further, constantly associating with those considered outcasts of the time.
But as our pastor’s wife indicated, the Bible’s over-riding guidance is to love God, to love one’s neighbor as oneself, and to treat others as we wish to be treated.
Banning love and commitment doesn’t fit into that scriptural guidance at all.
Nancy, don’t do to the Bible what the liberals do to the Constitution. The Bible is a fixed document. It is high blasphemy to say that the Bible says what it clearly proscribes.
Matthew 5:17
Jesus said: “Do not think that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets. I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.”
Leviticus 20:13
‘If any one lie with a man se with a woman, both have committed an abomination, let them be put to death: their blood be upon them.”
How many different versions of the Bible are there to choose from? Different religious factions have their own Bibles to quote. The Bible, like the Constitution is frequently open to interpretation – depending on your political party or your religious beliefs. Following the GOP Biblical interpretaions, we are all deep in sin and don’t have enough sense to choose our medical care or the right person to love. I think today we need to rely on logic and common sense rather than political views of religion – in the words of Simon and Garfunkle in the 1970’s, “…and the words of the prophets are written on the subway walls…” Graffiti often comes closer to the truth than GOP religious doctrine and decisions for the rest of us.
JoAnn:
Find me a Bible translation in which LEV 20:13 says the opposite.
Reread the beginning of your Leviticus quote, “…if any one…”. My Pilgrim Edition states “If a man also lieth with mankind, as he also lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination:…”
I moved on to my Webster’s New Collegiate Dictionary, “abomination, 1 something abominable, 2 extreme disgust and hatred: loathing” I find even watching people eat snails to be disgusting and loathing; no hatred felt but neither do I believe (back to the Bible) “…they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.”
The Old Testament also states that a woman unfaithful to her husband should be stoned to death; please do not remind the GOP of this verse. Women “during their time of the month” were forced to live separate from their famiies and the general public. What I really do not understand is why I bother attempting to carry on a rational conversation with anyone whose taste runs to porn and gentlement’s clubs. This makes me the bigger fool.
As Scripture is the word of God, and as there is no sacred text of JoAnn, what you think is abominable is irrelevant.
Now there you have it: An expert on Scripture (who can differentiate between “high blasphemy” and plain old ordinary “blasphemy”), yet who is also a connoisseur of porn who can guide you to the best “gentlemen’s clubs”. A man for all seasons.
Thank you Stuart.
American had me agonized over dinner.
Red George
There is an award-winning documentary “For the Bible Tells Me So” that is helpful to understanding what the Bible does and doesn’t say about homosexuality. A study guide by biblical scholars is available as an accompaniment at http://www.thisiknowstudy.org.
There are dozens of Bible verses about various abominations which include greed, pride, magic, eating of unclean food, lying, scoffing, and many others.
The exclusive purpose of sexual activity was said to be procreation at a time when the world needed more people. Procreation was considered an obligation – to go forth and multiply. (Were those who were celibate violating God’s and Jewish law?)
Since procreation was not possible between same sexes, homosexual relationships were thought of as unnatural at a time when homoerotic behavior in animal species was not known to exist.
The story of Sodom and Gomorrah is a major point of reference for many on the subject of homosexuality. Put into context, the story did not involve committed homosexual relationships but intended homosexual rape by men on a conquest to humiliate other men. Other abominations of Sodom were pride, gluttony, excessive prosperity, and indifference to the poor.
Will the abominations of greed and indifference to the poor ever get as much public attention as the same-sex persons who love each other? I have my doubts.
Thank you, Nancy, this is the clearest description of Bible meanins I have seen. I greatly appreciate the information and you taking the time to share it.
I continue to struggle with paying much heed to those who quote Bible verses that support their position but completely ignore other Bible verses that they find inconvenient. I wonder how many people who oppose homosexuality on the basis of the Bible are willing to eat shrimp, cut their hair, or wear clothing of two fabrics. How many of them attend churches at which women are allowed to speak? How many of them want to force others to share in their public prayer rather than following the instruction to pray behind closed doors. Face it: Homosexuality scares some people (maybe they had trouble with their “decision” to be straight) and will therefore latch onto anything they can to justify their homophobia.
The people who read the bible selectively also read the Constitution selectively. Not to mention the news….
The whole practice of lifting scripture and simply transplanting it into the 21st century is neither good practice or reflective of good scholarship. The sins that claim to require the death penalty were more reflective of the community’s attitude toward the seriousness of the behavior, relative to the survival of the community, than they were an expectation of death. The death penalty was actually very rare in ancient Israel, primarily because the requirements for a guilty verdict were almost impossible to meet and because the judges hated to impose it. They believed that the community should not exceed one death every seven years because it would reflect on the quality of the community more than it would indicate that justice was being served. (There is great wisdom in that practice.) The Sanhedrin halted corporal punishment in the middle of the first century. People who want to throw around scripture like it was written yesterday afternoon and hot off the press are not being smart about the whole issue and making themselves look like the judgmental fools.