In the wake of the horrific events in Paris, Rupert Murdock tweeted that all Muslims should be held responsible. JK Rowling’s response was wonderful:
“I was born Christian. If that makes Rupert Murdoch my responsibility, I’ll auto-excommunicate.”
If 10 Americans traveled abroad to commit mayhem and murder, would Murdock and his ilk blame all Americans? Should we blame all White Christians for the KKK?
Raw Story has an interesting article listing the worst terrorist attacks in the U.S.–virtually all of which were perpetrated by home-grown, Christian Americans. Think Timothy McVeigh, the murder of Dr. George Tiller, the bombing of a Colorado NAACP office just this month, and the three militia members from Georgia arrested last February for planning attacks on government agencies and the metro Atlanta police, and many more.
When white males of the far right carry out violent attacks, neocons and Republicans typically describe them as lone-wolf extremists rather than people who are part of terrorist networks or well-organized terrorist movements. Yet many of the terrorist attacks in the United States have been carried out by people who had long histories of networking with other terrorists. In fact, most of the terrorist activity occurring in the United States in recent years has not come from Muslims, but from a combination of radical Christianists, white supremacists and far-right militia groups.
Evidently, when members of “our” tribe misbehave, it doesn’t reflect on “us.”
But those Muslims….
In response; I can only say to watch our own Andre Carson and his unending work for all residents in Indiana. He works for those who voted against him in his attempts to better living situations for the working class who continue supporting that 1% who are receiving the tax breaks and using offshore banks to avoid paying any tax on their multi-millions. I voted for our Muslim Representataive Andre Carson; I stand by my vote and will continue to vote for this man. I am a Christian but no Bible thumper. I allow all others to follow their beliefs – or their non-beliefs – as their right protected by the 1st Amendment. I am even aware that not all Bible thumpers are “bad guys” any more than all Muslims are terrorists.
The actions of our side are always justifiable.
We all know what extremists act like. We know it regardless of the particular belief that they are extreme in. Religion, Middle East politics, African politics, American politics, racism, etc. Their driving force is to impose their beliefs on all around them and those who won’t submit deserve to be silenced.
Those extremists would like us to believe that there are left wing extremists too but the more that I consider that the less true it seems.
Liberal to me means freedom for all including economic freedom and freedom from oppression of all kinds, including, but not just, freedom from unjust laws and differential treatment under the law. Freedom from disadvantage so that everyone committed to contribution is unrestrained in that journey.
Can one be extreme in supporting freedom, collaboration, education, or religion that supports those? Who is an example?
Point these things out to those on the right and the response is usually a variation of the “No True Scotsman” logical fallacy.
Just some free-floating rambling thoughts developed throughout my life after living in several distinctly different areas and regions of the US certainly open for discussion or dispute.
In the rural South, I ran across what now I recognize as extremists, those few Christians, usually w/out formal education and usually aligned with a very small fundamentalist protestant church. These fundamentalists place most emphasis on adhering to a small number of ‘rules’ which may, or may not, be plucked from some obscure scriptural verse, such as a woman should not cut her hair because it’s her glory. and a woman should wear long sleeves to cover her arms, evidently those arms are tempting and sexy. Ever notice those women in the remote rural areas with obviously long hair that is styled into a huge bun atop their heads? That’s called a ‘glory bun’. For the most part, these types stick to themselves but if given enough encouragement from a smooth-tongued fear monger or ‘riled up’ the men of this group can turn nasty very quickly and would be attracted to the KKK.
Then I encountered the evangelical Christians in larger areas, usually middle to upper middle-class with some formal education or even highly degreed professionals, who tend to be members of the mega non-denominational churches or large Southern Baptist Churches, drive expensive automobiles, have no problem w/ladies wearing lots of jewelry, full make-up, and stylistic hair designs that in Texas are known as ‘big hair’. This group is a formidable force because they have money, have status in their neighborhoods, and vote with great regularity. They witness/evangelize everywhere they go, always putting in a good word for the Lord, and do believe that all who have not been ‘saved’ will go straightway to Hell unless they’ve made a very public confession in front of the congregation that Jesus is their Lord and Savior followed by putting on a white robe and being fully immersed in a large tank of water with plexi-glass sides so the entire congregation can observe the experience. These plexi-glass baptismal tanks are located behind the pulpit area and are discreetly concealed by heavy, expensive heavy curtains much like stage curtains. It’s truly theatrical and done w/great reverence, usually followed by a reception in the fellowship hall where the former sinner is welcomed into the flock as a true believer, and where cookies and lipstick red punch are served.
The Full Gospel/Pentecostal Churches usually are very small, located in rural mountainous areas where they exercise all the gifts of the spirit, meaning speaking in unknown tongues, miraculous healings involving the laying on of hands, lots of hands are needed, rousing guitar/banjo music performed by the musically gifted members, and the ultimate gift of the spirit is possessing such faith that one can handle a serpent, usually a cotton-mouth water moccasin, lifted from a huge container of snakes gathered from the local area, a bit of faith based on using local resources. These snake handler types seldom venture outside their immediate neighborhood and are extreme only in the fact they handle poisonous snakes.
The mainline protestants, at least in larger cities, are seldom extremists in anything. Among this group would be the Methodists, the Presbyterians, and the Episcopalians.
Every time one of my FB friends “likes” one of your articles, I’m above amazed by your lack of objectivity…but then of course, you are a liberal. Don’t let the facts get in the way.
http://cnsnews.com/news/article/lauretta-brown/9-10-worst-countries-persecution-christians-have-50-or-greater-muslim
@becky. You’re using CNSNews as a source of “objective” information?
The Muslims in North Korea are persecuting the Christians? I always read that Kim Jong Un was persecuting everyone.
Becky, please know I’m not attacking you or your thoughts simply because I detest being ambushed Online for sharing a thought that doesn’t always align exactly with the general thought of the particular forum.
With that said, I will share that I traveled to Istanbul and points elsewhere in Turkey in 2009 with a group of Central Indiana friends for an independent travel experience where we spent approximately two weeks. This was not a commercial tour, but rather, a group of folks who are a curious sort with careers running the gamut from public school educator to neurosurgeon, an eclectic group to be sure. Let’s put it this way, we did not pack religious tracts or literature to hand out during our travel.
At that time Turkey was a secular government although we knew, in advance, that likely 90%+ of the Turks identified as Muslim. Unless things have changed in Turkey, the secular government status remains. On the other hand, I’m unsure if we’d been greeted with open arms if we’d been intent on handing out Bibles, New Testaments, inquiring about the nearest Christian Bible-Study opportunity, or had engaged in attempts at proselytizing the natives. We were not ugly Americans, at least while on Turkish soil. By the way, these Muslims had no problem providing us with all the wine we could consume.
At the other end of religious intolerance across the globe, my spouse and I had a 4 week project based learning trip to Moi University, Eldoret, Kenya, cancelled in June, 2014, by IU because, as the IU-based Dean responsible for International travel wrote, of warring tribal factions, a euphemism for Islamist terrorists.
After seeing the link to cns news, I had to check it out. As a Christian I would not put stock in anything I saw there. It is a far-right extremist news source. I would trust news there as much as on FOX. Not!
Excellent comment Barbara. You are very observant and your descriptions are spot on. Excellent topic today.
Below is another source since you don’t like cnsnews….. I also might add that no one is BORN
christian – SORRY – JK – you don’t have that one right. But, if you are born into a Muslim country you are defined as Muslim by birth and religion – they are one in the same with no options… Try having religious freedom in a Muslim country.
WHO DO YOU WANT TO BE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE TERRORIST ATTACKS COMMITTED IN THE NAME OF THEIR RELIGION?
This is Murdoch’s exact quote…JUST in case you failed to see it.
Rupert Murdoch
Follow
Maybe most Moslems peaceful, but until they recognize and destroy their growing jihadist cancer they must be held responsible.
9:07 PM – 9 Jan 2015
http://www.christianpost.com/news/report-9-out-of-10-top-christian-persecution-countries-due-to-islamic-extremism-112255/
I’ve also been to Kenya and wondered about the evidence supporting “warring tribal factions, a euphemism for Islamist terrorists”.
There are about 45 separate tribes in Kenya, and Wikipedia confirmed my observations while there.
“The predominant Religion in Kenya is Christianity, which is adhered to by an estimated 82.5% of the total population. Islam is the second largest religion in Kenya, practiced by about 11.1% of the total population. Other faiths practiced in Kenya are Baha’i, Hinduism and traditional religions.”
The tribes there have always warred but more so since the British declared that they were all in the same country.
I’m still trying to figure out why, apparently, Christians are not born into their religion but Muslims are.
What is the incidence of people changing from the religion of their families?
Also, does “Maybe most Moslems peaceful, but until they recognize and destroy their growing jihadist cancer they must be held responsible.” Also apply to Christians? What is the evidence supporting Christian actions against their extremists?
Pete, I can only take what we received from IU in good faith that the university wished to protect students traveling along with faculty and spouses. I do not have the email on my desk top, but it was something to the effect of canceling the formerly approved trip because of potential for dangerous travel based upon warring tribal factions and also based upon State Dept Travel Warnings. Likely, it was in reference to the prior incident at the Nairobi Airport where the international flights arrive and depart.
Thanks Pete; I was thinking about all those criminals born into Christian families and raised as Christians that we would have to blame the Christian religion for their crimes…including many of the record murder victims here in Indianapolis last year. Becky needs to read Christian history; in all it’s bloody, gory, self-serving, religious reasoning for killing. Remember they slew thousands of Jews for causing the pandemic throughout Europe due to the Plague centuries ago. All religions have bloody histories; Murdock’s line of thinking regarding Muslim’s cancer of jihadists proves how little he knows about religion – any religion – it probably made a good headline to attribute to himself and sold newspapers.
With tongue in cheek, I’m sensing a real need for public schools to include in their secondary level Social Studies Curriculum of required courses for receiving a high school diploma, an overview type course, perhaps entitled World Religions taught on an historical basis with no hint of one world religion’s being superior to the other major world religions. Shouldn’t that be a part of every student’s education, a brief understanding of the tenets and beliefs of the major world religions? I paid some major money for a child’s private boarding school education at an Episcopal High School in northern Virginia where he could develop an understanding of the differences of world religions and of the cultures that grow around those religions, along with the usual coursework. Shouldn’t the public schools be educating our students in such a manner?
Barbara, my only point is that warring tribes in colonized Africa are common and to me, not surprising. It’s what happens in tribal culture. I don’t see it as a product of Islam in Kenya.
We were there in 2006 and it was and had been remarkably stable. After it wasn’t. Why? I didn’t hear any reference to any religion about it. I believe that it was more related to sharing national political power than religion.
Yes Barbara Yes! Public schools should teach about history and religions, absolutely. I went to private college that was ‘christian’ and their religion course was required to graduate. I learned a lot in that class as I grew up in a household that was agnostic but we went to Catholic church to satisfy my roman catholic grandparents. We learned every religion and their history, not just Christian.
It’s weird to look back now. The liberals in the family don’t go to church and most of us never will again. But the Christians in the family with deeply held beliefs with regular attendance are the most racist, and judgmental of them all.
“If 10 Americans traveled abroad to commit mayhem and murder”
We send more than that, Sheila. We call it a “Carrier Group,” and we give it cute names like “Shock and Awe.” We’ve killed more Arabs and Muslims in Iraq (two wars and Clinton’s decade of sanctions), Somalia, Libya, Afghanistan than the local despots ever could or will.
We sent one particular murderer abroad to assassinate people walking the streets of their own neighborhoods, and we made a movie to extol and memorialize him.
Barbara, I thought you had to be making this ssst up about a “Glory Bun,” so I looked it up.
Oh…My…God
http://www.libertygospeltracts.com/question/prequest/hairdown.htm
“1 Corinthians 11:4-15 says, “Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him? But IF A WOMAN HAVE LONG HAIR, IT IS A GLORY TO HER: FOR HER HAIR IS GIVEN HER FOR A COVERING” (1 Corinthians 11:4-15). ”
I guess all those depictions of Jesus having long, flowing blond locks and not wearing a buzzcut show that either: 1. Jesus was not divine; 2. Paul never met Jesus.
What the depictions of Jesus with long hair really show is that an Arab religion was slammed by force into being the religion of a Nordic people and so these people depicted their god to appear as one of them. Nordic men have absolutely no quarrel with long hair.
@Former Gopper, I always appreciate a person who fact checks before replying, and yes, I learned the term ‘glory bun’ from a son who lives in SC and has an interest in the strange and the weird, the trivia of the world, much like his mother.
Actually, not including the mainline protestant churches (Episcopal, Presbyterian, Methodist) at least in the more populous areas, there are enough jargon-like religious phrases, insider talk, to weave a tapestry with dimensions great enough to cover every possible occasion in life. Listing a few off the top of my head I’ve heard throughout the years in very different US Zip Codes and among various demographic groups.
Hide behind the Cross, Travel Mercies, Filled with the Spirit, Anointed by the Spirit, Baptized by the Spirit, Moved by the Spirit, Lifted by the Spirit, Slain in the Spirit, Resting in the Spirit, Signs and Wonders, Found the Lord, Washed in the Blood, Saved by Grace, The Unchurched, Prayer Warrior, Divine Appointment, Unequally Yoked, and any phrase where the Spirit is substituted with the Holy Ghost.
Perhaps other world religions, at least their fundamentalist type groups, have their insider talk. I simply do not know.
Oh, great, Barbara, now I have more crazy terms to research.
Do you consider Lutherans mainline? Garrison Keillor seems decent enough.
I’ve listened to quite a few fundamentalists and Barbara’s list is AGAIN, spot on.
My husband is a Christian and had never been baptized (in front of the congregation in a large tub device for that purpose only) so he decided it had to be done. We ate dinner afterward with the pastor and his very large family. When we left that afternoon, I asked my spouse if this family could speak one sentence without mentioning God once and he laughed and said, I don’t think so. I heard several of the phases Barbara mentioned above.