A couple of days before Elizabeth Warren withdrew from the Presidential race, I came across an article from Vox by Matt Yglesias that explained my concerns about her electability. Mind you, I had no concerns at all about her capacity to do the job; in my opinion, she and Mayor Pete were the two most intelligent and thoughtful candidates running. My doubts about her electability were based on my own life experience–experience that has led me to conclude that many Americans still aren’t ready to vote for a woman for President.
Especially a smart woman.
Talk about your “implicit bias”–there’s a very telling meme that has been making the rounds on Facebook: a man saying about every woman candidate “I’m definitely willing to vote for a woman. Just not this woman.”
On the other hand, Warren was the preferred choice of my own sons, and significant numbers of men (and women) I know, so I considered the possibility that my concerns were overblown. Vox disabused me.
In an article written before Super Tuesday, Matt Yglesias considered why Warren was fading.
There are specific tactical decisions (by both her campaign and her rivals) that brought her to this point. But a larger context to understand is that if you, like many of my friends, find the situation puzzling, that is probably because you know a lot of people who are demographically similar to yourself. I’m a highly educated white person, and most of my friends and acquaintances are also highly educated white people. Elizabeth Warren is very popular with people like us.
The reality is that there aren’t that many people like us — and there’s a valuable lesson in that, not just about the Warren campaign specifically but about some of the larger dynamics in American politics.
It’s our bubbles again. The article featured a chart that told the story: Even when Warren had fallen to fourth place in national polling, she was first with white college graduates and first with Democrats who have advanced degrees.
The problem is that politics is a numbers game, and we are not in the majority…The overall level of educational attainment in the United States is simply lower than many college graduates seem to realize.
In a way, we might consider this good news: evidently, more education does mean less misogyny, and over time–perhaps–the deeply ingrained bias against women will moderate.
But for those of us who want to believe we’re progressing down the path to equality, a recent Guardian report should disabuse us of that rosy fallacy.That report found that, globally, nine out of ten people exhibit bias against women.
Almost 90% of people are biased against women, according to a new index that highlights the “shocking” extent of the global backlash towards gender equality.
Despite progress in closing the equality gap, 91% of men and 86% of women hold at least one bias against women in relation to politics, economics, education, violence or reproductive rights.
The first gender social norm index analysed data from 75 countries that, collectively, are home to more than 80% of the global population. It found that almost half of people feel men are superior political leaders and more than 40% believe men make better business executives. Almost a third of men and women think it’s acceptable for a man to beat his wife.
This may explain the people who were willing to vote for a man who bragged about his sexual assaults, and who judged women solely on the basis of their looks. It also explains why those same people won’t vote for a woman, no matter how qualified.
According to an index spokesman, the information collected shows that on average, attitudes are “sliding back” – that anti-woman biases, instead of shrinking, are growing back.
“We’ve found that, if the current pace continues, 67 countries – home to 2.1 billion girls and women – will not achieve any of the key gender equality targets we studied by 2030.”
These countries are not just the poorest. If trends over the past two decades continue, the US will be among them.
I’d love to believe that the attitudes I encountered as a woman in law school and in various professional roles weren’t representative, or at least were dwindling. But the evidence says otherwise. We have a long way to go if we want to stop wasting 50% of the planet’s human capital.
I find this very depressing….
Happy International Women’s Day…..
I just filled out my AZ ballot for next week’s primary. There were 18 candidates! I have been thinking about my vote since Super Tuesday because I was rooting for Warren and hoping to vote for her. But as the week passed, I accepted that she’s not in the race and I would have to pick between two old farts instead. OMG, I’m so upset I didn’t even get to vote!
We need to structurally change our primaries! We should not have this first state bs or super Tuesdays. We should all vote on one designated day and then a few months later, another primary to remove the lowest voter totals of candidates. The one with the most votes is the nominee. Then the general in November. One person, one vote, no delegate math b.s. either. Just one person, one vote. Of course, other countries do this but we’re too stupid to take another path.
AgingLGirl; I agree with your view of the caucuses and the delegate vote, Primaries are important to put new names into the elections, especially in areas such as we have in Indiana where Congressional members are elected year after year with no opposition even from their own party. The chosen few at caucuses and the delegates are no different than gerrymandering or the Electoral College; taking the vote and the voice away from the people and giving it to a politically chosen few. Lobbying and Citizens United control those choices.
The fact that this country is not ready to elect a woman to the presidency will never end until we take the control over women away from the male dominated society which is primarily in the hands of the religious faction. Women allowing themselves to be dominated by male authority in their homes are voting against themselves; religion has convinced them that men are superior. My lesbian friends and I talked about Mayor Pete; highly qualified in many, but not all, ways but this country is even less ready to elect a gay man to presidency. The miracle of the election of President Obama TWICE was historically significant but it brought about that Republican committee formed only to block his progress at every turn possible. This probably scared some people into thinking if we would elect a black man; what is next, a woman or a gay man. We are a racist, sexist, bigoted society which rears its ugly head on election days.
Look at the number of women behind Trump at his rallies!
My hunch is that for a woman to serve as president, she will have to first acquire the job by being a vice-president who succeeds a president who either dies or becomes incapacitated in office or possibly chooses not to seek a second term. The electorate has to be eased into accepting a female president. Considering the ages of the 3 potential 2020 presidential candidatesthis year, we may live to see that happen.
I also felt let down by the turn away from the individual who was, by any measure other than gender, the most qualified candidate in the race. I think about how backward we seem in comparison to other countries, like Pakistan, where Benazir Bhutto was Prime Minister decades ago. The only ray of sunshine for women in the past decade was that Hillary got 3 million more votes than 45, but then we must understand that 3 million votes from California just don’t count, do they?
We got the vote 100 years ago. How long will we wait to get equality?
Author Kate Manne said, “MISOGYNY IS THE LAW ENFORCEMENT BRANCH OF PATRIARCHY”
I think she nailed that! As a matter of fact, I know she did!
https://www.vox.com/identities/2017/12/5/16705284/elizabeth-warren-loss-2020-sexism-misogyny-kate-manne
In this supposed enlightened democracy, which really is not a democracy, how long did it take women to earn the right to vote, or to be taken seriously in education, or to have control over their own destinies, or the right not to be used as a receptacle for men’s pleasure?
Oh wait, I guess over the millennia things have not changed much! We are not enlightened, we are locked into patriarchy which feeds on testosterone laden miscreants and how they can be dominated by other testosterone laden miscreants. Matriarchy throws a complete wrench into the works, it’s like speaking another language! The patriarchal mechanism cannot function with an influx of matriarchal skill and compassion.
Of course there are women who have been brought up in an authoritarian patriarchal environment-which seeks that very thing in their leaders. This environment, one of subservience, one of abuse, one of manipulation, and one of inequality, will be a hard nut to crack so to speak. What came 1st, the chicken or the egg? How do you begin to heal when so much healing is needed? How can you reeducate when so many refuse education?
In a strictly religious sense, Scripture states in Mark; “the two will be one flesh, so that they are no longer two but one flesh” So, there should be equality, not domineering! And lastly, in Ephesians it explains a little further on the two becoming one flesh, “no man ever hated his own flesh; but he feeds it and cherishes it, as the Christ also does the congregation”
The point here is, or should be no difference in how to conduct your dealings with a woman, just as a man would not Berate himself, he should hold his tongue as it concerns his wife or other women for that matter. Not only do women have the ability to be the only progenitors of the human race, women also provide the balance that’s needed in decision-making and enlightened stabilization of Moral, Ethical, Empathetic and Compassionate conduct.
Who would cut themselves in half? And why would they?
So now we have to ask the question, If not her, then who? If not now, then when? There are many hers out there, but for some reason there doesn’t seem to be a when! And just a sidebar, Beatrice Dixon, the founder of” Honeypot” said, that she wanted to be an example for young black female entrepreneurs, and not only male misogynists, but female misogynists ripped into her and called her racist!
Now, I will have to say it blew my mind. White women seemed so offended by this comment, it made me quite pensive so to speak. On this international women’s day, this should be a show of strength and solidarity, but instead, it seems there are some stuck in a self-destruct mode. A black woman has to have more drive, more education, more willingness to let things slide, all for the privilege of being discriminated against! The outlandish faux offense that was displayed by a minority of white women and all misogynistic men, was astounding! I think we can all rack our brains and come up with many instances of products that are geared towards white women and white men! I’ll leave that to you all.
And one other thing, I mentioned this to Sheila the other day, Black women who were lynched by whites, were not treated the same as men that were lynched, black men and women were already considered inferior because of the 3/5 rule of being human. But the black women were routinely hung for crimes committed by males in their families, not only hung, but raped, even if they were pregnant! Then would have the babies hacked out of them while they were hanging from a tree or a bridge or a light standard! This is the proud~/s history of our country, & how a country treats its female citizens is an indictment or acquittal of that country and its laws.
What was that old cigarette commercial? “You’ve come a long way baby to get where you’ve got to today”
If, if women have come such a long way to suffer cancer like their male contemporaries, or have heart disease like their male contemporaries, why can’t there be the opportunity to lead like their male contemporaries, or maybe NOT like their male contemporaries!
Thank you Sheila for this opportunity, believe it or not I cut it short.
John,
“Author Kate Manne said, “MISOGYNY IS THE LAW ENFORCEMENT BRANCH OF PATRIARCHY”
I forgot who said it, as I remember it was a Catholic author, but it has a similar ring: The Klan is the enforcement branch of Evangelical Christianity. By the way, how many Kleagles are women? Is there ONE?
While she may not be President, Nancy Pelosi has more than shown she can handle leadership and check the polls on the respect for Michelle Obama as a leader. Change is coming…
Lester,
“Change is coming…..” Keep dreaming! Maybe after the coming CIVIL WAR.
Most American churches work to keep women away from leadership positions. It doesn’t matter which cult one examines. They all do it to some extent, and as long as people keep bowing their heads to the cult leaders and their mythological texts, it will be the rare opportunity for a woman in THIS country to ascend to parity in politics.
It’s ridiculous, of course, but all one has to do is watch the GOP debate tapes from 2016 and watch what they did to Carly Fiorina. Then, Trump’s idiotic and outright hostile attacks to all women. And yet…. And yet, many women take Trump’s money and stand behind him at rallies waving their stupid signs.
No, there aren’t enough well-educated white people to make that much of a difference, but what we can do is educate those who are being conned, duped and pushed to the back of the room without realizing that they are abetting everything false about the human condition.
Vernon,
“….but what we can do is educate those who are being conned, duped and pushed to the back of the room without realizing that they are abetting everything false about the human condition.”
That could be a DOABLE first step.
A woman cannot be President for the same reasons that there are no women playing the the National Football League. Clearly running the country is not much different than playing football and that benefits freaks of nature in size, speed, agility, athleticism, strength, stoicism, and jock size like Donald Trump. When we gather in our modern coliseums or in manly recliners to celebrate human accomplishment, we cannot imagine Hillary Clinton for instance playing on a Super Bowl team.
That is who we are.
Jo Ann, Your comment about the women behind Trump at his rallies is interesting. I will tell you this; every rally is carefully staged and what you noticed is no accident.
Several years ago, I think Obama was running for the first time, and there was a rally in Downtown Indy, not to far from the house. My wife had the day off, and I was out of town, and she thought it would be interesting to see this guy. She walked down to the rally and as she was going through the security screening, she was approached, and was asked to sit in the section directly behind the podium. She is a older white women. At the time she would have considered herself a Republican, and she might not have even voted for him the first time.
The people that appear behind the “candidate” (has Trump ever stopped campaigning?) are carefully staged. Those uneducated masses need to see that women appear to be supporting a candidate because the optics are important.
AgingLgirl, “…I accepted that she’s (Warren) not in the race and I would have to pick between two old farts instead.”
Reminder: Warren, too, is an “old fart”.
Perhaps when an Agnostic Bomb explodes and wipes out all the Bronze Age Mythology of religion, then Woman may have a clear path to equality. If you are brought up with a Male Authoritarian Religious Leadership that shuts woman out of a leadership role and it is constantly reinforced that you are not to question authority the result is – You are expected to know your place. You may even have to dress a certain way.
Pete,
You could have picked any number of other analogies. It just doesn’t hang together.
Well said, Vernon!
And John, how many preachers of Christianity teach the concept of us being half a spirit?
I liken it to yin and yang energy or dualism. Neither are dominant; both are equal and necessary.
Our country was founded as a white patriarchal system. When I hear Trump and his people chant MAGA, I get the impression they’d be perfectly fine with slavery and having women become second class citizens again. And, as others have noted, many women sport their MAGA apparel; some of them are college-educated.
Politically speaking, Liz Warren made several strategic blunders causing her fall from grace, but if Sheila wants to point out how our establishment works from top to bottom, let’s study what was done to Tulsi Gabbard, a female congresswoman who served in the military but took on the endless wars advocated by both capitalist political parties. Ouch!
Not only did the Democratic Party change their own rules to keep her out of the next debate, the entire establishment run press completely disregarded her existence, literally redacted from the 2020 democratic presidential primary.
And don’t forget, during the impeachment hearings, both parties paused to give Trump and our MIC its largest-ever annual budget. How’s that for bipartisanship!?!
I see that there’s some denial of man logic here.
The truth is that there’s no other explanation for why men are uniquely qualified to be President.
Fear of death, one of the major underpinning factors in the establishment of religion, is a relatively recent development in Darwinian terms. For all we know, our forebears at some point in the creative process were asexual by modern definition and that via some random mutation(s) perhaps in response to an environmental or other stimulus a chromosome was added or detracted and here we are, eons later. God’s work as described in some Bronze Age chronicles and touted by politicians and priests ever since, or chance mutation? Or what?
Does it matter how or when we got to where we are now, or is the issue how to treat the result? I vote for the latter. Personally, I think the more than ancient split which gave the male of the species more physical strength than the female led to dominance in the cave and elsewhere and that remnants of that divide (if merely remnants) still exist in many areas by way of institutions (religious, mythic etc.) that have sprung up to legitimize that ancient chromosomal cleavage.
I have often written that we should learn from history but not be bound by it. Whatever the history, good or bad, there is the present context within which to place or reject its lessons. Thus quite aside from democratic ideas and gender fairness but rather in view of our Industrial Age when machines supplanted physical strength, there is no reason why women and men should be treated differently in matters political, economic, or social due to some ancient random mutation or mutations.
Again personally, I have been an aficionado of Elizabeth Warren since she first ran for Senate in Massachusetts, have contributed to her campaign(s), and early voted for her here in Florida. I have reluctantly removed her sticker from my rear bumper and will now support Biden. No candidate is perfect and immune to criticism from his/her voting record, but considering the alternative this fall makes it easy. . .
I suggest that the American bias against women serving in leadership roles is not a bias against women in general or a bias against women serving in leadership roles. Instead, it is a bias based on a confused and distorted DIVISION OF LABOR principle.
I base my contention about this on my own experience.
I have been turned down for jobs teaching elementary school because those doing the hiring were certain that a female–any female–would be better AT THAT TASK than a man. This was not ignorant global bias against a man but rather ignorant division of labor bias.
And for the job of elementary school principle: “This is to inform you that we have decided to hire a woman. This should not reflect on your talents or qualifications, Mr. Kaiser, but upon the nature of the job, which in our view is more suited for the natural disposition of a female.” Eventually, I was offered a position as elementary school principle but after many turn-downs. The job I got was in a school district which had deteriorated into educational anarchy, and the school board had concluded (erroneously, and based on a twisted division of labor principle) that a man offered better odds for bringing it back into order.
And for a contract doing paintings for art dealers: “Nah, almost all our artists are women, Larry. Your art is good, better than most of our women artists, but our clientele are more into interior decoration than art, and women artists have a flair for that. Now, it would be different if you were gay; the gays seem to have that flair, too. Understand?” Eventually, I got my contract with another company, incidentally owned by a woman–Delores Cupp, owner of Cupps of Chicago– who thought that men made better artists for her clientele. Cupps of Chicago represented far more men than women. Delores explained that many art dealers think that female artists produce more gentle art, art that is likely to contribute to the amity and harmony of a home. The ladies work under less pressure than a man, and they work under less pressure because they are “kept women” whose husband is the one under pressure to support the family. Delores preferred male artists, because she felt that the pressure on a man to provide for a family gave her, the art dealer, a certain leverage in negotiating contracts, and that men’s art works are more in agreement with architectural style, which she favored, than interior decor style. I recognized the BS, but I also signed the contract.
Then came getting my novels published: You can find the bias in “Writer’s Digest” magazine and “Publisher’s Marketplace”. And you can find the bias in bookstores. Choose a few writers agents or publishing houses that specialize in novels, and inventory their list of authors published; you’ll find women authors of novels outnumber male authors 7 to 3. I have an agent in Beverly Hills who keeps asking me to write under a female pseudonym to make his job easier.
An interesting sidebar: almost all erotic novels now published are written by women, the only exception being erotica written by men whose name sounds French. Assumptions again. Biases again. Erotica written by a man (unless he is French) is assumed to be dirty. Written by a woman, erotica is assumed to be a mere “guilty pleasure” and an expression of “female liberation”.
Lastly, men who think bias against females is global should try to get on as a pharmaceutical salesperson.
Maybe there is something wrong with the so-called principle of division of labor. For sure, it should not be applied so broadly. Maybe its time has come and gone. I do think that if division of labor was purged from the American consciousness, much of women’s problems in the workplace would disappear.
Why would the Bronze Age syndrome strike America but not England or Israel or Pakistan, or for that matter maternally led tribes scattered around the third world, some even predating the Bronze Age itself?
Are we trying too hard to apply a rule that is not a rule?
The Catholics don’t allow women in the clergy. Our Supreme Court is majority Catholic. It’s a cult, folks, along with all the other fundamentalist religions. Opiate of the masses. Education is the only answer.
Quite interesting Marv!
I would imagine behind every good Kleagle is a strong believing woman! I know they use women to put out their feelers in their communities and places of employment, whether they initiate that contact, which I find it hard to believe that they don’t, they leave it to their male counterparts to close the deal!
Women can be bigots, women can also be heartless when it comes to beliefs that have been pounded into their psyches for generations. That is in the minority, at least for now. There is no shortage of followers of our own King Kleagle, he has made it okay to hate, no matter if you are male or female. That’s why it democracy is supposed to reflect the will and largess of its citizenry. That’s why we do not live in a democracy, what’s going on at present is the antithesis of democracy! Just like the mob, the United States is devolved into that very thing. An extremely vocal and prone to violence minority, easily controls the majority! The majority can never seem to catch up. I’m not seeing any Eliot Ness in the picture, water is okay to fight some fires, but sometimes you need fire to fight fire!
There was a Klan at work in America away before there ever was the KKK. And those beliefs existed in the world concerning what some call Christianity for millennia. But I guess that’s another subject.
It absolutely drives me crazy how I can make a suggestion in a meeting and get shot down only to have a man make the suggestion 10 minutes later and have it accepted by acclamation. I have to give my ideas away to get them accepted. I brought in a large amount of grant money for my institution after being told to do so and then no one wanted it when I brought it in. I suspect that my boss thought I would fail and then didn’t know what to do when I succeeded. For years, I have felt like I am the wrong person for almost everything. I am convinced it is because I am a small woman.
Let’s face it – Bernie was right. Elizabeth Warren is the best candidate but she is not electable because she is a woman. It is our cultural conditioning. Drives me up the wall.
I do have hope because I think that the younger generation is much less opposed too women than my generation or my parents.
Let’s not forget that we would have a woman as president now if not for the electoral college. The very qualified Hillary Clinton got 3 million more votes than the very unqualified man who holds the office.
Larry,
Of course people tend to think of women as being much more compassionate and empathetic on the whole, rather than men! As far as pharmaceutical sales persons, sex makes the sale! Not that they are prostitutes or any thing like that, but knowing that field of expertise through my wife’s years of employment in the pharmaceutical industry, they don’t have to be smart just pretty! She always had a beef with that kind of thinking, and those sales reps always felt entitled because the doctors fawned at their feet.
There are always exceptions to the rule Larry. If you’re looking for a line of demarcation, there is a whole lot of gray. In generalities though, you can see the difference.
Scripture never makes women second-class, if anything, men interpret Scripture to make women second-class. Old Testament; Miriam, Deborah, Huldah, Anna, and Phillip’s four daughters in the New Testament! Through the old and New Testament there were prophetess is that had more ranking and more authority to speak for God than anyone else. There are other examples, but, brevity is calling my name, LOL!
John,
“An extremely vocal and prone to violence minority, easily controls the majority! The majority can never seem to catch up. I’m not seeing any Eliot Ness in the picture, water is okay to fight some fires, but sometimes you need fire to fight fire!”
Ditto. Again and again:
“I skate to where the puck is gonna be, not where it has been.”
~Wayne Gretzky, NHL hockey great
Gender roles certainly had a big place in human history and both served us and detracted from progress. Like most cultural artifacts they hang around long after their usefulness is over. Also they still serve some who happen to have personalities compatible with them but detract from lives that are not.
It seems that gender discrimination like racial discrimination may be on the decline but still is a substantial handicap to our species.
John – Yes, Jesus has a history of being respectful of women but it is noteworthy that he himself was a conformist to Bronze Age views in such connection, as in, how many women were apostles? We to day celebrate our Einsteins, our Gandhis, our Linncolns, and on the negative side some cults even celebrate Trump and assorted Hitlers. Note that all such references are to males. So query – Did Jesus really respect women, or (since he had no church house or revolutionary temple) need a place for himself and his ragged band of followers to overnight while wandering about the countryside, get the sand washed off their feet etc.? We will never know since his biographers and other scriveners of the time did not write about such everyday matters.
Larry,
just to make it clear, concerning the pharmaceutical sales reps, if you notice offices with female doctors, or a female office manager with authority, the pharmaceutical rep is almost always a young Studley do right, so it does work both ways, and almost every pharmaceutical company, the manager is a man! He makes the decisions on who he hires and goes for a certain personality and look. Both male and female, entitled, overly friendly, manipulative, and mostly fake. Like I said, there’s a whole lot of gray! I will say, the money is really good, usually well over $100,000 a year. For that kind of pay, many will throw their principles out the window.
Todd,
Sure plenty of preachers like to claim there is an everlasting soul, it makes it easier to extort money from folks who think they might burn in hell for an eternity. Be a good little, “pick your moniker here” and you’ll go to a heavenly paradise. Preachers like to use Luke 16:19-23 claiming a torturous afterlife for the bad. But this was actually a parable!
Acts 2:31 reads; “He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.”
Did Christ have a soul? As it says in the King James Bible, he was in hell! Of course, it really is not complicated, but easily explained. But that is for another time, another thread!
Suffice it to say, religious leaders have manipulated their religions, but they do not pass the smell test. Especially if you like history and like to read, most people don’t and therefore don’t get the gist of Scripture.
Sheila – I am less pessimistic than you are about this. I may be speaking as an “educated white cis male” (a narrow-minded prejudice in itself, not only because I remember “restricted” country clubs, hospitals, law firms, etc.), I think that while a lot of Elizabeth Warren’s problems were related to her being a highly educated woman, a law professor even, we are looking at the wrong part of that.
There is certainly prejudice against her for being a woman, and perhaps more now than before (more on that in a bit), but this country has a long standing and deep-rooted anti-intellectual bias. Basically, Warren sounds like a thoughtful, intelligent law professor – and while that may appeal to people like you and me, large masses of the American public distrust “book learnin’’. Pete suffered from a similar problem. It is the Adlai Stevenson “egghead” problem. While Warren has the passion we want from a leader, she still comes off as a professor. Even with her story telling (to counter the wonkishness), I still think her professorial image caused more problems for her than is usually credited. This is not to dismiss the significance of role stereotyping, even by women voters.
As Lori noted, America did vote for a woman as President, and one with a lot of negative baggage at that. Voter suppression, Russian interference, and a flawed campaign strategy have combined to give the Electoral College win to the current occupant of the White House. Also, as Lester pointed out, our half equivalent of Prime Minister (Speaker of the House – leader of one half of Congress) is a woman, and a respected one (and feared/hated by Trump).
As for the present, I do think that two trends may be pulling us back from the progress we have been making. First, social pressures have caused some people to restrain their basic prejudices. Various theories of psychology would suggest that some people will alter their beliefs to conform with those of society at large. Trump, and various foreign leaders, have reversed the social norms to the acceptance of hatred as good. The second reason, is related to a study I read about (I don’t know how good the study was) suggesting that today’s American male bases a lot of his happiness level on his job. With increased uncertainty, even in this “positive” job market, people do fall back on the reliable “constants”, religion, guns and bigotry. If one is comfortable with their job-defined self-worth, then they are less threatened by rising equality (although change is always frightening).
If I am correct about these two factors, they can be reversed if we replace the current occupant of the White House and try to deal with the economic insecurities that are plaguing our working and middle classes.
john,
“An extremely vocal and prone to violence minority, easily controls the majority! The majority can never seem to catch up. I’m not seeing any Eliot Ness in the picture, water is okay to fight some fires, but sometimes you need fire to fight fire!”
More importantly, why isn’t there an Eliot Ness in the picture? Or was the disgraced Morris Dees of the Southern Poverty Law Center USURPING that position, ever since his affiliation with the Anti-Defamation League (ADL) in the early ’90s?
And, for some reason, we keep wondering why we’re all “up SHIT’S CREEK without a paddle.”
John,
Try this on for truth and accuracy without it brandishing a half-baked generality:
“Women have not been elected president in America, because too many Americans still possess the strategic voting power to fulfill their aggregate bias against women in high leadership positions.”
The generalization that Americans are biased against women is false when wielded as a rule, as in: “America will not elect a woman president because America is biased against women.” First, America is not 100% biased against women, which the wording so often used clearly implies. Second, America is not biased against women for EVERY job or responsibility, as the examples show which I enumerated previously.
I’ll add one more example: As principal of an elementary school in California (a “progressive” state, supposedly), I initiated a court proceeding to remove nine children from a mother’s custody. Boyfriends of the mother had broken the limbs of three of the children. The girl in 6th grade was pregnant with one of the boyfriend’s babies. All nine of the children had severe emotional problems and were malnourished. Once the mother came to the school drunk and with a gun.
So, to court we went. It didn’t last long. The judge ruled in favor of the mother and stated for the record that his guiding principle was no matter how bad the mother is, children can never be better off without their mother.
We liberals applying too broad a brush to American problems is just as poorly thought out as when republicans do it. We are not just another form of deplorables, I hope.
Contrary to popular opinion, women were a large part of the hierarchy of the church in early Christianity. Some facts:
Women were priests and bishops and their positions weren’t questioned (the bishop was the person who hosted the Christian services in his or her home).
Mary Magdalene was not a whore, she was a respected businesswoman (not Mary the whore, or Mary the sister of some guy or the daughter of some other guy).
Peter’s wife was active in the church and was martyred shortly after he was (note that only important Christians were martyred).
What happened? The Paulists (or Paulines) took over. They were misogynists of the first order and now the Catholic Church has too much invested in that misogyny to let it go. Don’t blame Jesus for the actions of those who claim to follow him. Try a visit to the Episcopal Church of All Saints at 16th and Central for a clearer picture of how things might be. They ordained the first female priest in the Episcopal Church.
Warren had two things against her. First she is a woman. Second, she is smart. Americans generally don’t like either of those two things in their leaders. They want somebody they can see themselves having a beer with.
Just to clarify, I wanted to vote for Warren because she is smart and a good public servant. Her policies were thoughtful and helpful to the common citizen. Being a woman was a bonus.
As a little girl in the 50’s I saw no women doctors or attorneys. I saw no women in leadership positions ie governors, Senators, or the house of reps. I note that we had a marked increase in women in 2018 elected to the House of Reps. I don’t think it is only educated “white people” who are willing to have a woman president. I think many people of color and the LGBTQ community are more open to the idea as well. And believe it or not, I will bet that some of the so called “uneducated” people, or people with high school educations are open to have a woman POTUS. Even if a woman was elected to be POTUS, that would not mean an end to the sexist narratives that are thrown at women who choose to be leaders in government, law and medicine. It would not mean an end to the sexist expectations of women in Hollywood, either.
I believe that before a woman is elected POTUS in our country, we will have to see a marked increase in women state reps and women governors. It will have to come from the ground up. I also heard someone say years ago that most likely the first woman POTUS will be a conservative. I suspect she will at least have to be a moderate republican or democrat.
And maybe before a woman becomes POTUS, we will have to see men in power facing just consequences when they sexually harrass or assault women.
And maybe we will have to stem the onslaught of denying us women reproductive rights before we get a woman POTUS.
I wish Bloomberg would financially support every progressive or moderate woman candidate especially Amy McGrath. And perhaps he could also use his wealth to support laws that create income equality for women or create some sort of trust fund for Planned Parenthood.I appreciate that he has worked toward better gun regulation and the reduction of coal emissions.
What keeps me going is my faith that the divine feminine that lives in all of us is emerging out of the ruins from the violent destruction of misogyny.
I want to say thanks to all of the men on this site who are supportive of equal rights for women.
Marv,
I cannot fathom why the Southern poverty Law Center sold out! It really is a mess.
The organization has a net worth of $315 million, and the top salaries were paid to Morris Dees, Chief Trial Counsel, $337,146; Richard Cohen, President, $333,296; Wendy Via, Chief of Development, $186,645; Jerri Katzerman, Deputy Legal Director, $183,752; and Joseph Levin, General Counsel, $160,626.
Not bad for a nonprofit!
The Israeli ambassador to the US said the SPLC are defamer’s and black listers.
Larry,
I know what you’re talking about, my brother adopted his nephew when he was 2 years old. His mother’s pimp broke every bone in that babies body. The state was going to give the baby back to his mother but she ended up dying. My brother’s wife was her sister and wanted to adopt Matt. That kid was so wreked, he tried to kill my brother a couple of times when he got older. The stress ended up killing him, after seeing the shenanigans that went on in Washington, there is no way I would ever put my name on the line to adopt. I’m way too old for that. And you are right, for some reason the courts feel the mother is the best place to be for these kids. Most the time these kids end up severely injured, psychologically damaged, or dead.
There really is no infrastructure in place to help these kids, and no real flawless vetting process for foster parents. It seems a goodly portion of foster parents are just predators. So Larry I would have to agree with you!
It was evident when HRC a highly qualified woman lost to a man who on all accounts was unqualified. The sexism divide in US is alive and well. Until women can progress to taking care of them selves (financially) these dynamics won’t change. When I was in HS, my year older brother was slow in school, he had been sent to Brebuf but flunked Latin. When I applied to Archdiocean school my Mother insisted my brother go with me, since he had to(per Jesuit rules) take the year over. So for 4 years I kept my head down while my insisting superior brother, sublimated me. My grades went down to B’s, his went up to C’s and everyone was happy, but me. When you talk about sexism, it’s real and it holds women back.
Sheila says “We don’t seem to be making progress.” That is Sheila’s opinion, without support from the data. What data support her (and her readers’) views? What number or percent of which variables would demonstrate the truth or falsehood of that title statement? I look at a nation and a state in which more women hold significant roles than in decades past. Go back within your lifetime, any of you, and look at the Indiana General Assembly, the faculties of our universities, the doctors and dentists, and see if the number and percent of women in those areas has increased Not fast enough? How fast would be necessary to be counted as “progress”?
So much talk and so little attention to reality.
Christ’s followers during the day of Pentecost in 33 c e were touched by holy Spirit, both men and women, to speak the languages of the known world at the time. That way they could communicate to all of the Jews and proselytes that attended the festival of firstfruits in Jerusalem. So women were actually apostles of Christ alongside the men, going out into the gentile world to spread the law of Christ.
As we know, Jesus Christ was a Jew and he followed Mosaic law guidelines. After his death, and then his resurrection, the first living human he revealed himself to was a woman (Mary Magdalene). In ancient Israel, it was a patriarchal society. In the end, Christ really tore down most of it even though it cost him his life.
Concerning Christ places of rest, he had regular stops including Lazarus and his sisters whom Christ resurrected from the dead. Jesus Christ weeped with the sisters of lazareth, Mary and Martha.
Here is an interesting passage in Luke concerning custom. Jesus said to Simon,”do you see this woman? I entered your house semicolon you gave me no water for my feet. But this woman wet my feet with her tears and wiped them off with her hair. You gave me no kiss, but this woman from the hour that I came in, did not stop tenderly kissing my feet. You did not pour oil on my head, but this woman poured perfumed oil on my feet.” Jesus made the point that she was wholeheartedly asking for forgiveness for her many sins. She had supposedly lived an immoral life. Jesus then says, “I tell you, her sins, many though they are, are forgiven, because she loved much. But the one who is forgiven little, loves little.”
Maybe we can convince Sheila on writing an inclusive story about judeo Christian practices in government today, I’d love that, LOL although I might be the only one.
Morton J Marcus,
Do women make the same amount as men doing identical jobs? Usually not. Especially in management positions, a woman has to usually be more educated, and more intellectual than her male counterparts to get a position and the privilege of being discriminated against. And, people get paid now for what slaves used to do. Female servers make less than male servers, female servers and servers in general have to survive on tips and maybe $2 an hour if at all. Sometimes it works out well, sometimes it doesn’t. Minimum wage is slavery, even $15 an hour is not a livable wage. I don’t know what reality you live in, but I suspect it must be institutional. Females are discriminated against as far as voting because mostly women have the children with them. That includes homework, doctors, field trips, cooking and cleaning, and last but not least, one or 2 secular jobs! A lot of men I know do not do housework, can’t cook, and don’t volunteer at the schools. females are discriminated against as far as employment because of misogyny and patriarchal tribal prejudices and beliefs. So, your invented reality does not portend equality!
The more often skilled women run for President and other offices, the more likely voters will become to their acceptance. Like the stock market, there will be ups and downs along the way, but generally, the trend line will continue upward. That will occur not only due to changing sentiments of older generations but in more progressive attitudes of younger women and men.
While old biases die hard, Reublicans had a female presidential candidate in 2016 after Hillary Clinton broke through the old biases in 2008. In 2020, no fewer than six women filed candidacy for President on the Democratic ticket AND qualified for the debate stage.
Much as I support and enthuse over women candidacies for school boards up to the presidency, there are some who would never get my vote for reasons quite apart from their gender. I welcome the day when gender becomes immaterial at the ballot box.
That is not to discount anti-woman bias. It’s there to be sure, but women are not gong back to secondary or invisible roles. Their increasing visibility in leadership positions will condition more and more voters to accept women as CEOs of the nation as well as corporations, universities, hospitals, and more.
I had the good fortune to watch the “Hidden Figures” movie again recently. It always moves and inspires me. When those remarkable, mathematically skilled black women faced and overcame racist barriers and humiliations, then they faced sexist barriers as well. Somehow they persisted, achieved, and overcame.
One of many favorite moments was when John Glenn refused to climb atop that first orbital space ship until Katherine Johnson had checked the computer’s calculations. Of her many mathematical accomplishments, it was Katherine who figured out how to thread the trajectory needle to bring manned space capsules back into earth’s atmosphere. She is just one example of how much can be lost when bigotry forestalls the contributions of its victims. Its victims are all of us.
Amen to that Nancy.
I am so glad I came back to read the additional thoughtful comments. Thanks for new insights and points of view everyone!