Putting Us In Our Place…

The day the Alito draft opinion leaked, my youngest son sent me a reaction from The Onion, headlined “Vessel for Male Sexual Gratification Very Sad Today.”

Noting its slumping posture, slack expression, and overall downcast appearance, sources confirmed Wednesday that a vessel for male sexual gratification was very sad today. “It definitely appears to be upset,” said sources, adding that the object that exists solely for men’s physical pleasure was presently sitting unmoving with a distant, empty stare. “It doesn’t look happy. What’s wrong with it? I don’t like the way it’s ignoring me.” At press time, sources had decided to go over to the sexual apparatus and tell it to smile.

Despite the pious, “pro life” pronouncements of those who have worked assiduously to control women’s reproduction, the real issue has little or nothing to do with “saving babies.” (If it did–as innumerable people have pointed out–Americans wouldn’t continue to ignore the care and feeding of those babies once they are born.) It’s the “place”–the defined status– of women. 

We can see the desired end game of the “pro-life” movement in the declarations of the more rabid anti-choice warriors, who have made it quite clear that they oppose birth control as well.

I still remember a conversation with a partner at the law firm I joined after graduating from law school. It was 1977, and the firm had just hired its first two women lawyers (I was one). He mused that women’s ability to plan our childbearing had opened up employment opportunities that hadn’t previously been available. He was right.

Before the wide availability of birth control, the only real “choice” available to women who wanted to pursue professional careers was to abstain–from sex, marriage, and motherhood–or to delay for many years (or more commonly, to entirely forgo) careers.

The birth control pill changed women’s worlds. It also changed virtually all parts of American society. Remember that old cigarette ad, proclaiming “You’ve come a long way, baby?” We have.

Think about the trajectory.

Religion began–and mostly remains– highly patriarchal. Women were seen as either temptresses (Eve!), or nurturers and breeders. Gender norms were “God decreed,”  and religious texts were male-centered.

When the American colonies were first settled, they adopted English laws forbidding women from owning property or from keeping their own earnings. In 1877, all states had laws preventing women from voting. Women have had the vote for just over 100 years.

Most other advances toward civic equality for females came after 1960–the year the FDA approved the birth control pill. In 1963, we got the Equal Pay Act. In 1964, the Civil Rights Act was passed and the EEOC established. In 1965, the  Supreme Court ruled that state legislatures couldn’t forbid married people from using contraceptives–a ruling that Alito’s draft endangers. Other rulings allowed women to serve on juries, and forbid various types of gender discrimination. It was only recently that the Lily Ledbetter Act attacked the practice of paying women less than men doing the same job.

Thanks to those legal changes–and especially the ability to decide whether and when to procreate–women have entered much more fully into the life of this country. We have a woman Speaker of the House, a woman Vice-President. Turn on your TV, and women news anchors and sports reporters inform you. Today, your doctor and your dentist and your CPA are all as likely to be women as men.

The results have been salutary–and not just for women.

A friend whose company offers financial services recently posted an article from The Daily Shot, sharing research that compared companies with greater and lesser numbers of female executives in the ranks. Those with more female executives “have done far better over the last decade in return on equity than the rest of the S&P 500.”

The Christian Nationalist Party–formerly the GOP–finds the current state of affairs terrifying and “unGodly.” The old White guys who believe they should run the world have very accurately identified the foundation on which women’s progress rests: the ability to control our own reproduction. 

And that is what the fight over abortion is really about.

Assuming the extent of the backlash to the Alito leak doesn’t change the result–assuming the Court issues a version of Alito’s dishonest “history” and his astonishing decree that state legislators should have the right to require women to give birth–we will see whether America is willing to roll back the past fifty years of cultural change–whether even Red states are able to erase the civil status, empowerment and participation of half of the population.

Will this last gasp of patriarchy prevail? We’re about to find out.


  1. If the right wingers on the court REALLY believed that we need to return to the ORIGINAL intent of the constitution, would Amy Coney Barrett joyfully resign and stay barefoot and pregnant? Would Clarence Thomas resign and go to work picking cotton.. for free? Are they in any way serious or just full of shit?

  2. The good part of this, like Ric Scott’s proposed agenda for the GOP, is that the veil is being lifted, and America has the opportunity to clearly see what they are about to choose.

  3. I don’t believe there is any way to convince the rabid right that these things could happen (those who might not actually WANT them to happen, that is.) Their rose-colored blinders and huge ear-plugs keep them on a trajectory that makes them believe only what they choose to believe, and there is NO other truth besides what they tell themselves.
    I’ve never felt so angry, or hopelessly frustrated. When you can’t have a sensible conversation with the other side, a side that fully intends to cheat or kill to keep their power, what can you do?
    There may come a point where they are truly sorry they’ve fought so hard to put a gun in the hand of every American.

  4. I appreciate the history lesson today and the strong sentiment from Democrats. With that in mind, how do you explain women who are Republicans? Even more so, how do you explain people of color who proudly wear Republican stickers?

    I had a local city council member who is very active in the Republican Party tell me over the phone, “I like you but completely disagree with you over abortions!”

    I’ve never written a word for or against abortions in my publication. Never. I’ve always taken the stance that it’s a woman’s right to choose whether or not to have an abortion. She and her medical provider should be allowed to make that call.

    Why is it that if you are not a Republican, then you must be for abortion? It’s a health issue – not political.

  5. Should it be assumed the republicans will immediately end death punishments in all prisons since that practice is taking a human life? Should we assume those same legislators will provide billions of dollars to build day care centers and public schools to care for and educate the “saved” babies? Where will teachers come from? Teachers are leaving the profession in droves, partly because they are being told how and what they can teach. How many weeks of paid leave will be made available to women having these “saved” babies? The ramifications are mind boggling.

  6. The GOP clearly isn’t “pro-life” in any honest sense of that term. It never has been. We need to find a way to make that hypocrisy clear and to make it very clear that the end-goal of the neo-fascist calling themselves republicans is in no manner anything that will make America great again.

  7. The quote from Dilys Laing, Scottish poet, writer and artist, which I have used here before comes to mind.

    “Women receive the insults of men with tolerance; having been bitten in the nipple by their toothless gums.”

    “Will this last gasp of patriarchy prevail? We’re about to find out.”

    Also; a line from a long, long ago Jimmy Dean hit song, “Big Bad John”, came to mind. “You ain’t big, you just tall, that’s all”.

    We can, and do, out think them 7 days a week; we are stronger in more ways than muscle and usually outlive them because we understand the give-and-take for survival. We are like buckwheat and bend with the wind; they break with their stiff, unbending mind set that they are the rulers of life. We can juggle bearing, birthing and raising our children, being a wife, maintaining our homes and “bring home the bacon”; they generally crash on the couch at the end of their workday while we handle the rest which needs to be done. We know “Our Place”; please get out of our way!

  8. Yesterday, I had to occasion to listen to two fine young men, who are about the same age as my son, share their concerns about our government.
    These hard working young men are fathers whose biggest worry is how the hatred shared by so many politicians is going to hurt their kids.
    They see that awfulness from voters too, who are working to destroy trust in local schools and local governments.
    These men are worried about their gas, and food supplies, safe city streets and parks, not Hunter Biden’s laptop or what every Sucker Carlson spews on tv.
    When we were finished they thanked me for LISTENING and hoped I could share their concerns with the Town Council if elected in the fall.
    Abortion was NEVER mentioned!

  9. I see this latest attack on women’s rights as the Armageddon of the male run Christian churches that have been losing their battle against an evolving society for decades. As enlightened church members, both male and female, pick up their things and exit the pews they are taking with them the power those churches once had over them. And thank God I say.
    I say “thank God” because that power over peoples lives has caused more trouble and suffering for mankind than all the dictators the world has ever seen. The male dominated churches with their protected privileged place in society have used that protection to use and abuse and then cover up crimes against women and children for centuries. This fight has been long in coming, and I for one say “bring it on, boys!”

    the struggle between Church and State has been ongoing since the first pilgrim got off the first boat and has never been resolved. It is high time we bring the matter to a head at last.

  10. Lol,

    Shrinkage was never an issue amongst this particular group of hypocrites.

    Do you really hear anything about “log cabin Republicans” anymore? Nope! Because the image of this group dictates they crawl back in their hidey holes, lock the closet door, and speak through their keyhole.

    I never understood the objection over contraception!

    Well, I do understand, but the hypocrisy of it all is quite astounding.

    With all of the extramarital affairs and lecherous behavior by those claiming to have some sort of divine calling, it’s really hard to understand and quite boggling to say the least.

    Religion really has no right to enforce particular dogmas on any citizen male or female. And, their onslaught reminds me of someone wearing a blindfold and attempting to run a 40-yard dash in a basement. The consequences of that action are obvious by onlookers but the sprinter remains oblivious until!

    As was mentioned on this thread, the ruling on the flag issue in Boston, lol, now the satanic temple will have the right to hoist their flag? Self-defeating propaganda and self-inflicted boondoggles seem to be obvious to onlookers, but do they really matter to the, self deluded? The willfully ignorant? The bizarro world? Their March towards the precipice is seemingly joyful and exciting, until they actually get there.

  11. In 1973, after Roe, I read an article on the newly legal procedure. The author asked Cardinal Cushing for his reaction. He said that he was personally against it, but felt he didn’t have the right to force his religious beliefs on the rest of the country. Those defending abortion rights never used religious freedom in their arguments. They really should have.

    Alito has once again misread the Constitution. I would counter his point that privacy isn’t a right in the Constitution with Amendment IV. What does it mean to be secure in your person, home, and papers if not that you have a right to privacy?

  12. POWER, MONEY, DOMINATION, ENTITLEMENT – white, male, diminishing after centuries…

    This brought to mind a Labor Day sermon several years ago – the only time I walked out on at a Catholic mass. Instead of the anticipated
    message about the value of work and rights of working people long supported by Catholic theology, the middle aged white male priest spoke of a type of labor he would never understand. Quoting statistics, he lamented that Catholic women were having so few babies, their numbers were decreasing. He feared they were falling behind the birth rate of the Muslims. He said, “Thank God for the Mexican women!” Was he charging them with keeping the pews filled and balancing budgets so his life style didn’t change?? No surprise he didn’t respond to my email.

    Would opinions about our roles, rights and value change if women of all ages stopped – went on strike if you will – stopped performing all the paid and unpaid functions for our partners, families, employers, communities, faith homes, etc.? If they can’t fill job openings with us, things would quickly grind to a halt without us! Maybe in that silence our demands would be heard and the folly of the Court’s misguided upcoming decision on Roe be recognized.

  13. what ever the mis-read of any constitution as it reads,freedom to control ones personal life has been slashed by the court. now, whats next?

  14. come every election cycle now,the mass hystria by the christians who seek to control people will undoubtbly be there to control your next vote..
    seems like that big mega church like the big mega rich will see a path to control democracy as they,,want it..

  15. And, has Peggy Hannon stated in her comment,

    Cardinal Cushing was absolutely correct in his statement.

    Scripturally speaking, and I’m not talking about religious teachings but scriptural teachings, mankind is granted free moral agency (free will).

    The freedom to choose, the freedom to understand, the freedom to go left or right or up or down! Freedom to eat, the freedom not to, the freedom to be peaceful, the freedom to wage war! The freedom to follow scripture, or the freedom not to! The freedom to worship the God of Moses and the God of Abraham or the freedom not to.

    All religions do not pertain to the God of Abraham and the God of Moses! Therefore, in a secular society, you cannot have particular dogmas that all do not share concerning governance and law! Hence separation between church and state.

    The Apostle Paul put it simply concerning hypocrisy, in Romans 2:21 which reads; ‘Do you, however, the one teaching someone else, not teach yourself? You, the one preaching, “Do Not Steal,” do you steal?’

    There you have it! Don’t be a hypocrite in what you teach or what you believe or what you show yourself or claim yourself to be.

    1st Corinthians 10:29 reads; “I do not mean your own conscience, but that of the other person. For why should my freedom be judged by another person’s conscience?”

    I suppose I could keep going, but, I think the point here is, everyone is free to make their own decisions no matter what opinion you have in your own mind.

    Under scripture, and I’m not talking about religion, but scripture, we are all the same, we are all free moral agents, we all live under free moral agency, we do not have the authority to judge someone else’s conscience! We all have freedom of choice! There’s only one judge, and it’s not us!

  16. “The 11 points speak for themselves:”

    Turn schools into patriotism factories where kids are forced to say the Pledge of Allegiance (unconstitutional) and teachers can get fired for making white children uncomfortable (i.e., “critical race theory”). Then again, none of that will matter after they close the Department of Education and implement a voucher program that ghettoizes public schools and routes billions of tax dollars to unregulated religious institutions.

    End diversity training “or any woke ideological indoctrination” in the military — “woke” is Scott’s new favorite word — cut off funding for universities that try to diversify their student bodies, and proclaim as a point of fact that the nation is colorblind (the last 400 years never happened).

    Impose more draconian sentences for violent and nonviolent crime, and expand qualified immunity so that cops can even more easily abuse their authority with impunity. Blue lives matter, etc.

    “We will secure our border, finish building the wall, and name it after President Donald Trump.”
    Give the president a line-item veto (not only unconstitutional, but it would render Congress irrelevant), prohibit debt ceiling increases (calamitous), tax poor and retired people (everyone should have “skin in the game”) and whatever “Socialism will be treated as a foreign combatant” means.

    Enact term limits for members of Congress and civil servants (unconstitutional and will empower lobbyists), move government agencies out of Washington and “into the real world” (expensive), and cut IRS funding in half (presumably so Scott’s pals can get away with tax fraud).

    Ban same-day and automatic voter registration (because fraud, or whatever), unmanned collection boxes and public campaign financing (“No serious person would ever favor this,” says the billionaire), and don’t count absentee ballots that arrive after Election Day. But voter ID will be mandatory, of course.

    Ban abortion, ban porn, give tax breaks to “nuclear families” and allow faith-based groups to discriminate against whomever they like.

    God says trans people aren’t real, so doctors should be banned from treating trans children and trans men should be banned from women’s sports — which the party that just a few years ago ridiculed Title IX now finds sacred. (Strange, that.) Also, “no government forms will include questions about ‘gender identity’ or ‘sexual preference.’”

    Ban Facebook and Twitter from banning users for hate speech or spreading misinformation (unconstitutional), “reject both the roots and the adherents of cancel culture in America,” and “stop investing federal retirement dollars with ‘woke’ fund managers and companies that put left-wing politics ahead of profits” (“woke” means clean energy, I presume).

    Stop participating in peacekeeping missions, end imports from China (only $435 billion a year), “take climate change seriously but not hysterically” (i.e., do nothing) and “treat our enemies like enemies.”

    More draconian government serving Republicans instead of humanity. What can possibly go wrong?

  17. Theresa; thanks again for your on target comments today. We have fought to get out from under the male oriented church rulings for centuries; we don’t always win but as Maya Angelou said, “And still I rise!” Men may appear to often win but they will always be tired because we do “rise” because we “persist”.

    John Sorg; how do you separate religion from scripture…or scripture from religion. Your constant scriptural quotes come from the Bible; a religious tome. Someone pointed out recently regarding the banning of books to prevent warping the minds of our children; the Bible should be thrown on that pyre with its sex, violence, torture, stoning and casting out of those who violate religious rules. Someone else pointed out that there are no white people in the Bible. Both are interesting observations on the reigning rule book of old white men in government and business; but especially those at the pulpit.

    And John; nice of you to approve of Cardinal Cushing’s statement. But consider Cardinal Law of Boston who; after decades of covering up hundreds of child molestings by only the Priests in Boston’s Parishes and his admission of guilt resulted in the punishment of a position within the Vatican until his death.

  18. If memory serves, magats is the party that claimed they’d get government out of people’s lives. More lies?

  19. The end game here SHOULD create a backlash against Republicans. Why do women still vote for Republicans? Because their husbands or fathers tell them too. In that world the “lord and master” must be obeyed.

    The egregious stupidity of Alito and his fellow hypocrite ideologues should also show the world that there is a HUGE difference between education and intelligence. Republicans simply do what they’re told by their corporate/banking paymasters. The aggrieved white male is quickly losing his influence in our country, but that begs the question: Will the outrage and backlash be sufficient enough or early enough to prevent the utter destruction of our Constitution and thus our nation at the hands of the Republican social assassins?

  20. JoAnn,
    the cliche even a broken clock is right twice a day?

    The Christian religion is not based on biblical teachings! They’re based on rulings from the Nicene council that were led by Roman emperor Constantine!

    As being free moral agents, living under free moral agency, hence free will, everyone has the freedom to choose! Do you believe? Do you not believe? Does it even matter? The first dealings with morality came from scripture! Unless one would feel silverback apes have morality, or any animals practice morality. A well-trained conscience leads an individual to a moral epiphany, and that is not just my opinion, that is the opinion of many psychologists and teachers.

    Getting back to emperor Constantine, the Church Dogma that came out of those councils had nothing to do with scripture. It had everything to do with control, uniting the empire, and indoctrination of Pagan laws, rituals and holidays to further consolidate that power.

    I can quote you scripture, I can quote anthropoltogist, I can quote secular authorities who all believe morals come from a higher power than just evolving.

    I’ve been debating for decades, it’s all about what you learn, and what you research! I don’t argue with professor Kennedy on her opinions and her education, because I have not researched what she knows and researched, most of her life.

    But, I always listen, and I always glean what appears to be a ringing of truth, cornucopia of knowledge, or a trove of wisdom. Always trust but verify, and that is what works for myself.

    And you know what JoAnn? I love to debate with intellectual authoritarians, because if you dig deep enough, you usually find, revered intellect is based on flawed information. Imperfection cannot achieve perfection, and, many mistakes are made unless particular paths are followed. But, why does humanity consider itself imperfect? That actually is scriptural in nature. But people lose sight of the fact that many of the things that they profess to believe in but hate scripture, actually have their beginnings in scripture.

    For one instance, I can tell you why religion and religious leaders claim contraception is wrong, it’s not taught in scripture! But, they have made a Dogma based on misinformation from the beginning which emanated from the Nicene councils.

    If people knew the nuance of that, they could debate it instead of saying someone is stupid. But, people find it easier to claim others are stupid or ignorant, or believe in fairy tales, or live in an alternate reality, rather than speaking from a strength! At least that’s my opinion.

  21. Vernon, good morning, bingo bingo bingo!

    I’m anxiously awaiting for those scripts transfer to the big screen!

  22. To Mike from Iowa: Yes, Republicans have long wanted to get government out of their boardrooms – but not their bedrooms. There are still a few among us who were living when women were first given the vote, for heaven’s sake!

    Theirs has been a long and tortuous route since Abraham, the 12 tribes, Jesus and his all male apostles, but someone should tell Alito that was then and this is now. He is proposing a return to a time in human history that makes the Handmaiden novel resemble a liberal account of reality, and if adopted, will trash whatever remaining legitimacy the Supreme Court has enjoyed over the years.

    I think it possible that “the people” will refuse to be bound by Alito’s “back to the cave” version of a woman’s right to attend to her reproductive health free of government (aka white nationalists’) intervention, and I note that the proposed holding gives the power of both substance and enforcement of such holding to the states, which guarantees a patchwork of conflicting holdings and endless litigation on what I think is a federal constitutional right based on privacy. Such assignment of enforcement to the states smacks more of the thought undergirding the Articles of Confederation than that of its superseding Constitution.

    As to the court’s fading legitimacy, I recall an old story about a reporter who was questioning Stalin and told him that the pope was unhappy with some of his antics, to which Stalin replied: “How many divisions does the pope have?”

  23. My worry is a consequence of knowing that democracy has never been secure but is constantly at risk from those who crave power and the more they get the more corrupt they become.

    Rick Scott is a great example and he now speaks for Republicans . He’s Trump with a different face.

    A difference between Republicans and Democrat is the difference between understanding of culture.

    My understanding is that it is the sum total of our memories from observing how others we deem to be like us behave in different situations while we are growing up.

    We are all therefore unique in detail but there are observable trends by gender, by ancestry, by times, by community, etc.

    I may acknowledge who mine makes me or who others who are different are because of it but I have no power to change others other than words.

    Rick Scott is different. He wants to make it law. That is exactly fascism.

  24. Constantine as the first Roman Christian emperor may not have been converted after all. Some historians have written that he was bowing to political reality in a Rome that had been Christianized. The Second Nicene Council of 381 A.D. adopted the books that were to go into the bible (they goofed with Revelations) and those attending bishops (according to one historian) had the average education of a high school senior.

    Nonetheless, the idea of a risen saviour caught on and such as Alito seem to be living in the days of a patriarchal return to an all-male cast of characters who have wrapped one society after another with their Abrahamic views of women.

    As I wrote before, someone tell him that was then and this is now.

  25. “The First Council of Nicaea (/naɪˈsiːə/; Ancient Greek: Νίκαια [ˈnikεa]) was a council of Christian bishops convened in the Bithynian city of Nicaea (now İznik, Turkey) by the Roman Emperor Constantine I in AD 325.

    This ecumenical council was the first effort to attain consensus in the church through an assembly representing all Christendom. Hosius of Corduba may have presided over its deliberations.[4][5]

    Its main accomplishments were settlement of the Christological issue of the divine nature of God the Son and his relationship to God the Father,[2] the construction of the first part of the Nicene Creed, mandating uniform observance of the date of Easter,[6] and promulgation of early canon law.”

    Your statement,”The Christian religion is not based on biblical teachings!” is at odds with the above Wikipedia definition which shows there were Christian religions which the Nicene Creed (“formal statement of doctrine of the Christian faith, Webster’s new Collegian Dictionary) brought together to organize Christian religions. So; what exactly were those unorganized Christian religions based on? Sounds more to me like Trump’s gathering of MAGAs into one political party.

    In my years of Bible classes in the Methodist Church; later in the Baptist Church, Church of Christ and classes in Latter Day Saints and a few conversations with a Jehovah Witness; never has Emperor Constantine or the Nicene Creed (adopted in 325 AD) been referred to; only the teachings from the Bible. And NO, everyone does not have the right to choose; just ask women who are fettered under the doctrine of the Catholic Church…”Putting Them In Their Place”.

    I haven’t called anyone stupid or ignorant and don’t remember anyone on this blog using those terms; disinformation, lies and liars are the chosen words of today. We are now fighting to be those “free agents”you referred to; to repeal those state, federal and SCOTUS laws which are gradually destroying democracy by removing our civil and human rights being denied by Trump’s MAGA Creed which is claiming Christianity as its base.

  26. If DEMs would quit wringing their hands and propose real change, they could “call” the GOP. A poll of all Americans about SCOTUS this week showed: “67 percent who strongly or somewhat support term limits. In addition, 74 percent support imposing a mandatory code of ethics; 63 percent favor an age limit; and 59 percent would like the court to have an equal number of Democrats, independents and Republicans (having dispensed with the fraud that the partisans in robes aren’t political).” Hat Tip to Jennifer Rubin, Wash Post

  27. Democrats: the role of government is to supply solutions to all of its citizens that allow them to live, as much as is possible, lives focused on family life and personal productivity, un-compromised by poverty, personal safety, security of possessions, ill health, or ignorance issues.

    Republicans. The role of government is to favor the cultures and demographics that vote for the party by passing laws that disfavor other cultures.

    Which country is it to be?

    Which party will define our future.

  28. JoAnn,

    Wikipedia? That was actually written by the church! So, would an organization wish to claim itself a liar?

    We can talk about Constantine, as he was one of the main players, but, Eusebius; also known as Pamphili in honor of his friend Pamphilus who was murdered/martyred by emperor Diocletian.

    Arius, Athanasius, amongst others also had a very large role in the council. The first century teachings were being compromised more and more by Greek philosophy and the philosophical houses of Socrates, Plato (platonist), the Stoics, the Aristotle (Aristotelian), the Epicurean and the Skeptics!

    The beliefs from these philosophical houses crept into first century Christianity after the death of John of Potmos (who wrote Revelation) By 325 ad, Greek philosophical Dogma had become a huge influencer and the Christian religion. Of course, this is where the anti-canical books were admitted into the church of Rome’s bible.

    This is where the Trinity was decided upon, and, it was aided by bribery from emperor constantine. Who promised to give back all properties and moneys taken from the church, and, those individuals would be given power and authority. Many were de facto mini emperors or judges or executioners!

    Also, the Dogma or doctrines of people being good and going to heaven or being bad and going to hell! So, this is how modern religion came about. Before that time, Christians were being martyred on a regular basis. Oh, and, the only ones who are being martyred where the enemies of the council and emperor Constantine’s edicts!

    Pamphilus and Origen we’re more originalists in line with first century Christianity.

    The earlier mentioned Eusebius who is well known for his ecclesiastical history and works, conveniently leaves out that he was part of the Nicene council at all. His purported written history goes from approximately 30 BC to 324 ad, one year short of the Nicene council. Why? He was the architect, why leave it out? More than likely shame because of his compromise. And probably to save himself from the persecution heaped upon Arius!

    Anyway, there’s a whole lot of info left unsaid! And, if you want to get further into history, this would take weeks rather than a couple of minutes. But, there is a whole lot more to the story than wikipedia, lol!

    And, one more quick point, there were only about 250 bishops present at this council that decided dogma and doctrine, about 1800 bishops were absent. So, minority rule!

  29. I deeply apologize for opening this whole new can of worms with John; the history of who decided what religion is or what was religion is still to me Emperor Trump calling his MAGA Council together to write their MAGA Creed to inform us what politics is or what is politics. I’m outta here!

    Amen, brothers and sisters!

  30. What a day for the choir loft!

    If only the sailors listened to the advice of the Admiral before jumping ship to long anticipated shore leave, we would not be in this predicament.

    “Gentlemen!”, the Admiral generously admonished his crews, “Take my advice in more earnest. Keep your bowels open … your mouth shut … and your penis in your pants … and you’ll never get in trouble!”

    And now the Supreme Court is ruling on the history and norms of sperm in our exceptional nation? 🤔

  31. Why has no one here mentioned that five of the six Republican Justices are Catholics?

  32. Thank you, Theresa. I can remember being confused when there was so much negative publicity about John Kennedy running for president; that this country would never elect a Catholic to the presidency. Now we all see what their concern was; it is coming to pass with the current Catholic SCOTUS.

  33. I can quote you scripture, I can quote anthropologists, I can quote secular authorities who all believe morals come from a higher power than just evolving.”

    No, you can’t. My favorite response to this boasting is from Christopher Hitchens. It’s a classic, and it’s all over the religious morality debates on YouTube:

    For at least a hundred thousand years, pre-humans and humans had moral codes which improved that cooperation that helped them survive and multiply.
    The religious moralists, who maintain that God is the sole source of morality, gloss over this history, and pretend humans had no morality before the Bible, Koran, etc.

    It’s obvious morality preceded scripture. My six year old approved this message.

    None so blind…

  34. Ormond: well put. JoAnn: ” I haven’t called anyone stupid or ignorant and don’t remember anyone on this blog using those terms”; well, I recall Todd calling us all fools within the last couple of weeks or so–just sayin’..

  35. patmcc – actually, I’d love for the court to overturn Loving [sorry – pun intended] and then throw Thomas in jail – or pass a new law – 50 years minimum for husband and wife if they are still married 25 minutes after the law passes (which should be signed at 4 AM)

    John – thank you for another great history lesson – I knew some of the details but you filled in sooo much more.

    As for the Republicans – this slide has been going on for a long time, but too many people don’t care – I hope I am wrong, but I fear that some day (fairly soon) the non-caring people will wake up SHOCKED that the bedroom police, book and movie censors, and political language cops will all be out in force. The Constitution will not be overturned, just ignored.

    Murkowski and Collins will say “It’s bad, but McConnell lets us disagree ocassionally, so all is good with him in charge. It is more important to be loyal to our Party.”

    Sorry for the downer thought, but

  36. Pro-life organizations consider most birth control pills (not just the morning after pill) to be abortifacients. If the Supreme Court overturns Roe, the constitutional basis for the right to privacy to use birth control pills will be lost. This is a lot scarier than just losing the right to abortions.

  37. If the Supreme Court overturns Roe, the constitutional basis for the right to privacy (based on the Griswold case winning the right to contraception) will be lost. Pro-life organizations consider most birth control pills (not just the morning after pill) to be abortifacients. This is a lot scarier than just losing the right to abortions.

  38. If the Supreme Court really overturns Roe v. Wade, I think it would behoove Congress, then, to outlaw all methods to improve erectile dysfunction. Let them stick it in a wall socket when it gets hard!

  39. The Nicene Creed spoken every Sunday sermon time by the Washington National Cathedrad leaders.
    “We believe in the One God” to me the sound of nails on chalkboard. Rev Beth of NYAPC in DC told me to think of it as poetry after I complained during book study on zoom. I think of many poems as I do the Nicene Creed as ‘nails on chalkboard’. Good word salad is Wendell Berry or Joseph Campbell as are a few others.

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